Is there something wrong?

[squiffything]

I said a few weeks ago that I had probs getting back from the Italian run at goodwood, the engine seemed to run poor at lower speeds but seemed to be fine at the higher speeds, I changed the plugs and it seemed to help the situation. I also put in a glug of oil when I thought it was sounding very rough on the ride home. I have been out for a bit of a run when I changed the plugs and it felt fine.

This weekend I gave the old girl a bit of a wash and started her up to run for a while as I was getting the washing stuff ready. came back out and where I had parked her in front of the car she had covered the bonnet with what appeared to be wet sooty splats. It looked like someone had attacked the car with a black spraycan. It wasn't oil and it cleaned straight off the car, which in itself was a pain as I wasn't intending to wash the car aswell.

What could be wrong or do I just have myself a Herbie type Ducati that just wanted to get its own back on the car because it was jealous that the car has been used instead of the beast.

[banditloon]

:chuckle:

I done that to my ex girlfriends car!! Started the Blandit up and left her running on the warm up cycle. Jumped on the bike and went to work, received a phone call later... "my car is covered in black stuff from your exhaust!!!"

All I did on the Blandit was changed the oil, oil filter, air filter and plugs and everything was fine after that, well apart from the ex girlfriend bit... Never did wash her car :chuckle:

[squiffything]

PMSL yup it was the Missus car hence why I washed it she's bigger than me. Ok so what you're saying is that I really do need to get her in for a service I know it's due and was intending to have it done before the track day.

[banditloon]

Service will hopefully sort the problem of the black stuff out :D

[Rockhopper]

Its probably just soot in the exhaust that has mixed with water which is a by product of the combustion of petrol which has then been blown out the back.

If there is a lot of it then it could indicate that your bike is running a bit rich hence the other problems you have been having with it an also why it felt better with new plugs.

[squiffything]

Thanks Rock so if its running rich how do I go about making it a little poorer? Please bear in mind that my mechanical skills so far extend to changing spark plugs and.......erm...... nope thats it just changing spark plugs :)

[benson]

You'll be running poorer after the service Squiffy - just get it in for the service NOW!!!!!!!!:dizzy:

[squiffything]

Ooo er when teacher tells you to do it then it had better get done. I will get onto the mechanical person as soon as miss honest and I think I had better get a shiney red apple for you next time I see ya ;)

[slob]

I really do need to get her in for a service

oooeeeerrrrrrr

[benson]

The thing is they're tempramental these Italians Squiffs - she'll know you've not been lavishing the required amount of time, money and lurve on her and she'll run like a bag of **** until you do....

Meanwhile off to find todays shiny red apple.....:biggrin:

[katana]

Worn needle jet maybe?

[russ77]

Worn needle jet maybe?

Not on a fuel-injected motor. While the motor warms up, the engine management will run a slightly rich mixture I believe (like having the choke out on our lo-fi machines). What sort of state were the plugs in when you changed them?

It could be something as simple as a clogged air filter. Get it out and give it a hoover, perhaps?

[squiffything]

Not on a fuel-injected motor. While the motor warms up, the engine management will run a slightly rich mixture I believe (like having the choke out on our lo-fi machines). What sort of state were the plugs in when you changed them?

It could be something as simple as a clogged air filter. Get it out and give it a hoover, perhaps?

Black and sooty As I said before it is in need of a service so that will be sorted out soon ready for the track day. But I will try working the hoover on it just to give it a bit of a breather. Cheers Russ

[squiffything]

OK the bike is in for its service and MOT and the mechanic has just phoned to say it will not be back this week as the engine problem is giving them a bit of a headache. They put it on their sensor to read the hydrocarbon(? the thing that says how much unburnt fuel is getting through) readout which should have normally read somewhere between 500 - 600 parts per million. Mine read out somewhere in the 10,000's aparantly its buggered their machine up!

They sent it to be dyno'd and have the power commander checked and the readings for that came back showing everything was running as it should with the optimum settings being in place. It might be an ignition fault or a valve fault or an injector fault but they have got to investigate further.

Any of you mechanically minded clever sorts got any suggestions for me?

[benson]

A new bike? Sorry - that wasn't helpful but it's aboout my technical level!!!

[katana]

OK the bike is in for its service and MOT and the mechanic has just phoned to say it will not be back this week as the engine problem is giving them a bit of a headache. They put it on their sensor to read the hydrocarbon(? the thing that says how much unburnt fuel is getting through) readout which should have normally read somewhere between 500 - 600 parts per million. Mine read out somewhere in the 10,000's aparantly its buggered their machine up!

They sent it to be dyno'd and have the power commander checked and the readings for that came back showing everything was running as it should with the optimum settings being in place. It might be an ignition fault or a valve fault or an injector fault but they have got to investigate further.

Any of you mechanically minded clever sorts got any suggestions for me?

Well thats a rather large contradiction.

[squiffything]

lol ok i'm not very technical and I could have got that entirely wrong.

[barbican]

What fuel do you normaly use?

[Nickj]

Just had a look at my 750IE, I'd expect its got a fairly common system on the road bikes, factory racers might well be different. I think we have multiport sequential injection, it's the most likely choice as it gives the best throttle response characteristics.
So we have is a classic current generation webber-marelli type fuel injection system. There are sensors depending on the model for Air temperature, Coolant temperature, Air Pressure, Battery Voltage, throttle, camshaft and lambda sensor for exhaust gas O2 levels. The Throttle Position sensor is continuously checked so that the computer can adjust the fuel pulse and spark advance/pulse width to suit. A camshaft rotation sensor will provide engine speed and crankshaft position data, this allows the calculation of Ignition Pulses and RPM. I think on some models not sure about the dues, I suspect mostly the quads theres also a rear cylinder compensation to compensate for the heat differential.

Ummmmmmm So whats wrong with it? It looks like the mapping is good which is what the management computer uses the various sensor inputs and their respective maps to match the fuel and ignition pulse duration to. The aim is to give the right amount of fuel for an optimum mixture under a wide range of operating conditions. That means the most expensive parts are good so far.

There could be a faulty sensor making the bike think that it's below sea level, in the arctic and at full throttle(one or a combination of these), any of these could cause this problem, a simple substitution of parts from a known good bike would check that quite quickly. If it's not that then the pump injecting the fuel could be running over pressure so the system is just tossing in too much fuel which the mapping doesn't see as the dues don't have lambda sensors. Assuming they all check out then a short in the wiring loom to one of the sensors would give the same symptoms.

Most likely it is actually a simple problem in a relatively complex system which is why it is more difficult to trace to a root cause.

Point in case, I bought an MR2 that was doing 15MPG and running like a dog so managed to get it for next to nothing. The owners good and knowledgeable (NOT) friend had told him the ECU was stuffed. The air pressure sensor had been disabled, I swapped round two pipes and we were all systems go.

Sorry for whittering on LOL

[squiffything]

Thanks nick it had been suggested before that it might be a sensor and I had mentioned this My mechanic had a recent similar prob on an Aprilla so he knows his stuff it's just a case of going through the various probs I guess to find the right one.

Oh and my MR2 has also just been put down as it needs a new clutch and brake caliper so its had to be sorn till I decide if its worth sorting it H reg car with a bill for much more than its worth

What ever happened to horse and carts lol

[squiffything]

What fuel do you normaly use?

normally stick in the higher grade unleaded however last time I filled up they only had deisil left so I gave that a go......







Nah only kidding only a silly person would do that :)

[barbican]

After many tankfulls of optimax I have found mine is much happier on plain cheap regular stuff, don't know if it would make that much difference though if all the sensors have a large coat of soot it might be a factor

Somebody who knows more will now discredit my theory!

[Sparky]

The only sensor that sits directly in the soot making path is a lamda sensor which the 620ie doesn't have.

I reckon it's the temperature sensor that sits on the front cylinder head thats faulty.

Chris

[makemdan]

You mention changing air filter which must mean you don't have K&N air filter? Do you have race cans on? If the answer is no to both which map have you got in the power commander? Is it a downloaded map or a customised map? If you're runnning standard cans and air filter but have a map installed for race cans & K&Ns then this might be a contributory factor as both items make the engine run leaner so the maps give a richer mixture, suggest you check and mebs upload the standard maps to the power commander.

[squiffything]

It's been to the dynojet people and had the correct mapping for the system I have. Bob has had the Valves skimmed, changed the plugs (instant fouling of the new plugs), balanced the injector bodies, changed the plug cap taken the power commander off all together (no real change though did run richer at low revs went mad at higher revs). It is still over-fuelling on the front cylinder which is where all the problems seem to be occuring. Anyone got any suggestions please I need to get this sorted by wednesday or it's no go for me to the trackday :(

[Nickj]

Borrow a trailer squiffy, hop over here and take my old MR2 away (£50 towards the Sils fund). The calipers were all treated to a service pack before I moved and lost my out of the rain fixing facilities. Disks are good too, one rear one has only done about 20miles. LOL but clutch matches yours. Got cute alloys (one needs a refurb) and good tyres too.
Just too much rust now to be a realistic fix and don't have the time to strip for spares.

[squiffything]

Nick I very well may take you up on that! It's something that I fancy having a go at always wanted to get a haynes manual and pull something apart just to see how it all goes back together again. Let me see what I can sort out on the trailer front.

As for the bike the compression is low somewhere under the 100's when it should be around the 150's / 160's could be the rings i'm told. Next job is to take the head off and have a gander. Bob may well be signing on later to give the correct diagnosis and not my laymans heath robinson description :)

[squiffything]

OK as i said elsewhere the bike is stumping my mechanic. He thinks it's something in the electrics. All is fine above 2000 revs but below it's a dog. It all seems to be on the front cylinder and his next and final posible solution is a brakedown in the coil. He is going to swap them over and see if it changes to the rear cylinder. If it doesn't he's lost for suggestions. His only two further suggestions are taking it over to a duke specialist with the diagnostic equiptment (the one he uses is in Northampton) or my borrowing a 620ie from a friendly monster owner for a couple of days so that he can swap over the sensers and other bits to try and locate what has failed.

Anyone local to me here in Newmarket that would be prepared to lend their lovely machine for this course of action would forever be in my debt and would earn themselves dinner and a few beers/bottles of wine but it is a right pig thing to ask and to organise.

Anyone that could and would be prepared to help drop me a pm.

[squiffything]

Well I've had a call from Bob and he thinks he has found the problem it's a faulty fuel injector. does anybody out there have a spare or know where I might be able to pick up a second hand one. He has said that it's going to be in the region of £300 for a new one!

Also is the injector for the dark monster different than the standard 620ie

[Sparky]

There's some throttle bodies with fuel injectors on e-bay for £59.99 Buy now.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/DUCATI-M620-IE-MONSTER-DARK-THROTTLE-BODIES-INJECTORS_W0QQitemZ270137317926QQihZ017QQcategoryZ 10448QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

[squiffything]

Thanks for that Sparky

Purchased and saved myself £270 just got to wait then get it to Bob