Does God have Free Will?

[Migsangel]

Strange question, I know, but I am struggling with understanding what is happening in the world...

Can god chose to do right and wrong?

Can god change his/her mind?

And if god can then does that make any difference to how we should behave?

Can god chose to change his/her 'master plan'?

Sorry if its too deep or touchy, but I need to others opinions on this one...

[dazzi-b]

.........Can god chose to change his/her 'master plan'?


It all depends if you believe in God or not.

[walkingpictures]

Migs me old mate,heavy topic,touchy for some people too,if I meet him when they ship me out of here in a wooden overcoat I will mail you all the answers ;) Meanwhile,enjoy life with Jan and make the most of it

Kimbo

[Migsangel]

Migs me old mate,heavy topic,touchy for some people too,if I meet him when they ship me out of here in a wooden overcoat I will mail you all the answers ;) Meanwhile,enjoy life with Jan and make the most of it

Kimbo

Hi Kimbo...
Yes, heavy topic, but timely consdiring god's people are killing each other like it was the end of time....
You enjoy life as well mate..!

[Pugi]

Strange question, I know, but I am struggling with understanding what is happening in the world...

Can god chose to do right and wrong?

Can god change his/her mind?

And if god can then does that make any difference to how we should behave?

Can god chose to change his/her 'master plan'?

Sorry if its too deep or touchy, but I need to others opinions on this one...

If assuming that God exists:

God can indeed choose to do right or wrong. Anyone can. The problem is to know what is 'right' and what is 'wrong'. It's not always clear and sometimes depends on your perspective. A very well known paradox and philosophical problem is 'The problem of Evil', ie. if God is good, then how can he/she allow evil to happen?
More here:
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/evil/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_evil

God can change his/her mind too. Once again - anyone can. But why do that when you (God) is always right?

No, this does not change the way one should behave. This is why religion is claimed to be the root to all evil and the reason wars exist. Note: there are no 'bad' religions. Only bad people who use distorted interpretations to control people, gain power and pervert the true ideas of the (any) religion.

Can the 'master plan' be changed? Maybe. Since religious theory says that God is always right (that's why God is God), there is no need for alterations. Besides, we wouldn't know because we're not in on the secret.

Hope this helps.

Pater Pugi

[Yorkie]

Humans is what is happening in the world!

For good or bad it all comes down to us!

We are the good and evil!

Yorkie.

[stef]

this is an interesting one...
if god can change his mind, he clearly doesnt know the future, which means he isnt omniscient (knows everything)... so that's a bummer, and very much contradictory.

same with people.. if god is omniscient, he will know my future before i am even born. so is there anything i can change ? that would contradict gods predictions (will?)..
and finally, if my faith was sealed before i was even born.. why am i being judge when i die ?

this is the problem i have in beleiving there is a god...it's completly illogical !

the statements that god knows everything and can do everything are contradictory, and unreconciliable. it's all down hill from there. but make your own mind.

[Will]

Hi Kimbo...
Yes, heavy topic, but timely consdiring god's people are killing each other like it was the end of time....


This is nothing new and people have always been asking why - no matter how many discussions one has about 'God' it will not change anything - history has demonstrated this very clearly. Why do some people think that their weird 'God' philosophies justify their appalling actions? - bonkers!

[squiffything]

consider the lilly...........

[Lady-Bob]

Reputably, God created the earth and everything.... so that means he created evil as well.

I guess it was a bit of a test to see how we'd handle it..... rather like big brother giving the housemates tasks and secrets.

In answer to your questions... here's my modest opinion

Can god chose to do right and wrong? He's perfect, he doesn't need to choose

Can god change his/her mind? He's perfect, he doesn't need to change

And if god can then does that make any difference to how we should behave? He made us in his image he intended us to behave how we do.

Can god chose to change his/her 'master plan'? We'll never know, but he's perfect, therefore his master plan is perfect, he doesn't need to change it.

As someone said earlier.... that's if you believe in God or in a god

[nik_the_brief]

consider the lilly...........

He's 'aving a go at the flowers now...

[bad-yeti]

consider the lilly...........

LMAO nice :D:D:D

My answer on this:

Can god chose to do right and wrong? Right or wrong depends on one's personnal view point, so really what is the difference.

Can god change his/her mind? Assuming that it is a sentient being, Yes.

And if god can then does that make any difference to how we should behave? It would depend upon the degree of the change, if it decided to make chlorophyl blue so that grass was blue, the only reall difference would be lots of people going arounds saying "WTF blue grass"

Can god chose to change his/her 'master plan'? See item 2 plus, looking at the world around us.....you really think that there is a master plan.

Personnaly I don't believe in any kind of religion, kudos to those that do, if it helps you to sleep at night or gives anyone a warm and fuzzy feeling then great, but when used as an instrument of war...well that kind of makes you a bit of a F*"£tard in my book. Appart from the Crusades, they were of course really cool and we rocked.:biggrin:


Just my little toughts.

[nik_the_brief]

Personnaly I don't believe in any kind of religion, kudos to those that do, if it helps you to sleep at night or gives anyone a warm and fuzzy feeling then great, but when used as an instrument of war...well that kind of makes you a bit of a F*"£tard in my book. Appart from the Crusades, they were of course really cool and we rocked.:biggrin:


Just my little toughts.

Yeah but it was the Saracens who were the dudes in the Crusades.

The European knights were more like Brits on the pi$$, true chivalry was displayed by the Moors - especially the Ayyubids lead by Al Nasir Salah al din Yusf ibn Ayyub better known as Saladin (who was in fact a Kurd).

In my job I meet people from all religions and it seems to me that religion is used (and always has been) as a thinly veiled excuse for bigotry and racism against those of a diffferent creed or culture. And as an excuse to persecute others - no-one expects the spanish Inquisition!!

Religion as a whole is a great thing - for those who need to believe in a greater good - and it provides comfort to many.

Unfortunately it's fanaticism that causes the problems. Whether it's old George Dubya who believes in a conflict of Armageddon like proportions which is to take place in the Middle East (and is certainly doing his best to make sure there is one) before the Second Coming of the Lord or the Taliban and their twisted views on Islam.

[Mrs Soup]

Can god chose to do right and wrong? God does not make decisions - Man does

Can god change his/her mind? God does not have a mind to change

And if god can then does that make any difference to how we should behave?
N/A

Can god chose to change his/her 'master plan'? the master plan is to provide Man with free will

Just my own opinion.

I don't think I believe in any sort of God, but such a belief provides many people with the patience to accept the things thay cannot change and the courage to change those they can.

Unfortunately, it also provides alot of people with the means to do very nasty things to each other to gain/maintain power.

[Will]

........Religion as a whole is a great thing - for those who need to believe in a greater good - and it provides comfort to many.......


What is religion? Why do some think that is connected with a greater good? Isn't religion just another attempt at explaining the universe? Why should God be good? etc etc etc.....

[bad-yeti]

Yeah but it was the Saracens who were the dudes in the Crusades.

The European knights were more like Brits on the pi$$, true chivalry was displayed by the Moors - especially the Ayyubids lead by Al Nasir Salah al din Yusf ibn Ayyub better known as Saladin (who was in fact a Kurd).

In my job I meet people from all religions and it seems to me that religion is used (and always has been) as a thinly veiled excuse for bigotry and racism against those of a diffferent creed or culture. And as an excuse to persecute others - no-one expects the spanish Inquisition!!

Religion as a whole is a great thing - for those who need to believe in a greater good - and it provides comfort to many.

Unfortunately it's fanaticism that causes the problems. Whether it's old George Dubya who believes in a conflict of Armageddon like proportions which is to take place in the Middle East (and is certainly doing his best to make sure there is one) before the Second Coming of the Lord or the Taliban and their twisted views on Islam.


Couldn't agree with you moor (gettit) except that the true Crusade Knights looked very cool.

Like you I travel all over the world, mainly in the Middle East and it's the most peaceful place you can imagine. Yes it has its problems but where doesn't.

In fact, little boring story time ;), I spent a large amount of time in Beirut Lebanon, I remember 2 years ago it was 4 days before Christmas, the place was buzzing, what amazed me was the sight of a Christian Church all covered in lights with a Huge Christmas tree out at the front, and 2 doors down was a Mosque, there were people from both religeous casts just chatting on the street. So I wantered up the highstreet and sat at an outdoor cafe, there were 4 girls waling towards me maybe late teens early 20's, 2 of them were dressed in erm how shall i put this, quite a provocative manner, young girls out on the town, their 2 friends were dressed in Abayas, the 4 of them say opposite me and just chatted, lauching and just being friends.

My thought to myself was....hell these people have got the right idea.

[nik_the_brief]

They did, indeed, look pretty cool.

My old man is, in fact, coincidentally the Head Honcho Grandmaster Wizard (or whatever they call themselves) of the Knights Templars here in the UK - he has a tabard with a bloody big red cross on it, a sword and all that gubbins.

Also weirdly, small world innit - he's an expert liguist and specialises in Arabic (several dialects fluently etc. used to go native out there as part of his -then - very hush hush work). He's now retired and does a bit of work still for the MoD as a reservist (coz of his expertise - a couple of weeks ago he was babysitting the Libyan visitors at Farnborough Airshow for example). He was also the second oldest serving soldier in the last Iraq war and also served in the previous one. He remembers fondly his time in Beirut in the 60s and 70s -says it was his favourite city in the world (and he's seen a few). He's a real dude (I would say that really though wouldn't I) and fought at Mirbat all respect to him in the Dhofar Campaign.

[bad-yeti]

I want to meet him, maybe he could adopt me :)

I was ggoing to move to Beirut about 3 years ago, shame it will never be the same again :(

[stef]

They did, indeed, look pretty cool.

My old man is, in fact, coincidentally the Head Honcho Grandmaster Wizard (or whatever they call themselves) of the Knights Templars here in the UK - he has a tabard with a bloody big red cross on it, a sword and all that gubbins.

Also weirdly, small world innit - he's an expert liguist and specialises in Arabic (several dialects fluently etc. used to go native out there as part of his -then - very hush hush work). He's now retired and does a bit of work still for the MoD as a reservist (coz of his expertise - a couple of weeks ago he was babysitting the Libyan visitors at Farnborough Airshow for example). He was also the second oldest serving soldier in the last Iraq war and also served in the previous one. He remembers fondly his time in Beirut in the 60s and 70s -says it was his favourite city in the world (and he's seen a few). He's a real dude (I would say that really though wouldn't I) and fought at Mirbat all respect to him in the Dhofar Campaign.

I thought templars used to slay arabs for breakfast.. a bit risky of the Mod to leave your dad babysitting the libyan, if you ask me.

[Nonnie]

Oooh Nik, is the Holy Grail part of the family silver?

Your Dad rocks dude.

[squiffything]

Yeah but it was the Saracens who were the dudes in the Crusades.

.

Nah it was definately the monty python boys with coconut shells

[JamesH]

"I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing."
"But," says Man, "the Babel fish is a dead giveaway isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves that you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. Q.E.D."
"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.
"Oh, that was easy," says Man, and for an encore goes on to prove that black is white and gets himself killed on the next zebra crossing.

Nuff Said,

James

( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babelfish )

[Migsangel]

Thank you everyone for your insights...Yes 'Nik-the-brief' your dad does sound really cool...

I was raised Catholic, and never bought into it...But I am a spiritual person...

I think everyone that say god has a plan, and they are chosen ones and part of gods plan are good people but self centered...'Self Love'

I like the verse 'God is Love'...why? because Love is a wonderful and horrible thing all at the same time...Love bring out the best and very worst in people...So god may be love....even 'self love' fits in this defition...

Again thanks for your thoughts...

[nik_the_brief]

Thank you everyone for your insights...Yes 'Nik-the-brief' your dad does sound really cool...

I was raised Catholic, and never bought into it...But I am a spiritual person...

I think everyone that say god has a plan, and they are chosen ones and part of gods plan are good people but self centered...'Self Love'

I like the verse 'God is Love'...why? because Love is a wonderful and horrible thing all at the same time...Love bring out the best and very worst in people...So god may be love....even 'self love' fits in this defition...

Again thanks for your thoughts...

Yep, he's a dude alright (but doesn't talk about it much - unless seriously plied with alcohol).

As for self-love is that like self-abuse? Another big thing with the Catholics eh Stef!!

[Paranoid Dave]

there's a lot of sh1t in the world right now, between people, countries, nation and religions. God is not responsible for religion, thats how humans choose to understand god and interpret it/him/her. Sadly it is a feeble response to say you are doing gods work or to blame someone for not following gods wishes that causes more death, murder, hatred and anger in this world than anything else. If these people stopped for a moment they might realise that 'god' would probably rather a peaceful world than one full of murder and hatred.

I don't mind people being religious, but anyone who is needs to base that in reality otherwise its just a cop out for everything in life. My father is a very regular church member and my step mother is the deputy leader of the east anglian womens methodists group (or something like that) but they both base religion in reality and know where to draw the line. Thus are very nice people.

[giler]

Sorry to say but it is all down to us - god is only a belief,we are simply the most highly evolved animal on our small planet.
When you are gone, you are gone.
The only doctrine I live by is - You are not here for a long time, you are here for a good time!
Makes things a lot simpler!
Giler

[ricky]

religion is a big thing over here (well more like peoples beliefs are) and has been used as an excuse for terrible acts of violence on women, children, innocent bystanders, police and the security forces by both sides. If you ask me its all a load of balls!!! i personally believe that a man called jesus was born ages ago, was real dead on, spoke amazing things and he gave people hope and a belief in something that even the just the thought of gave them a sense of well being!!

whether theres a god or not im not sure but if there is i wish he'd get his finger out and sort this bloody planet out soon before things get worse!!!:on:

[squiffything]

As a born again athiest i have to agree that religion has been used to justify many acts of wrong doing for centuries. Who ever and what ever a person believes in will always be used to back up terrible acts if it suits their cause.

In the big scheme of things we, on this earth, are no more than a big ants nest in the greater cosmos. We have evolved better that the species around us to a level where we have over evolved and now need to find a reason to justify all we do and say.

No other species thinks about what it does and deliberates before doing it. No other animal tries to take over and rule other life forms to the degree that man does. No other animal has beliefs and religions and tries to force them onto others.

Life goes on. The human world will always be fighting over something. It has nothing to with God or some other entinal being causing it to happen it's just the way evolution has taken us.

However for some it has allowed the evolution of freedom to creep in which is why we ride Monsters and why we laugh and joke and enjoy life. Let the believers make their wars and have their rows about who's right and wrong because they always will. Just don't let it ruin your life if you can help it and try to enjoy the ride............

[conner]

In the big scheme of things we, on this earth, are no more than a big ants nest in the greater cosmos.

No other species thinks about what it does and deliberates before doing it. No other animal tries to take over and rule other life forms to the degree that man does. No other animal has beliefs and religions and tries to force them onto others.

i'm afraid we are not even big ants in the cosmos, in an infinte universe and beyond there is no true perspective of how truly small we are. the problem here is that god is anthropomorphised into having human characteristics which as far as i am concerned is an impossibility. our small brains are simply not capable of comprehending what god might truly be and as such we make him (it) to be something like ourselves. i was also raised a catholic and realised pretty early on that god was not filled with the same petty bollocks that he seems to have lumbered with people. so, i say the universe and all that around it stretch on indefinitly (as far as we know) giving an infinite possibility for anything. god is that infinite possibility and as such is not subject to the writers questions.
ps... i think there are other animals who think and deliberate, remember we evolved from the same worm in the same environment and as such our brain structures should show some similarities. it is the degree that is different

[squiffything]

Hmmm i can't agree you never see a worm herding up all the other little insects to bend them to the will of the worm to have them succomb to the power of the worm mindset. Although i do believe that there are ants in far of africa who herd termites into doing the donkeywork for them. There you go we get back to the ant similarity.

I would agree though that we are very small in the infinate void that is the universe

[conner]

ok so the worms might not get up to much but chimps go on planned hunts and have been known to instigate preplanned war parties. the study i read showed one group that split in to two and then one group went on raiding parties and systematically killed off nearly all the members of the other group. demonic males if you are interested. very interesting perspective on male aggression. and you know youve seen your dog eying up the cake on the bench clearly thinking, i'm gonna eat that when he leaves the house. i think the ants actually enslave another species of ant... ok so i watch too many nature shows...

[squiffything]

But the argument we both adhear to is that the animals evolve to take on this course of action. It is not because the entity, that is god, is telling them to do this as part of its master plan. Neither are the worms /chimps/cake eating dogs then turning around and saying that god made them do it (although i bet the dog would like to after it had a good belting from Dad for nicking his cream donut)

And i have my suspicions about worms too. I bet they have a great time when we are not looking I mean how many other animals can change sex whenever it feels like it and perform just as well even when it has been chopped in half

[conner]

true but 1 half of the worm dies and i dont fancy eating dirt all that much.

if you really wanted to get in to it evolution could all be part of the plan. christianity says god created the world in 7 days. but what does a day mean to an entity that time means nothing to?? whos to say we are not in fact mid week in creation. bet hes looking forward to friday...

[Pugi]

christianity says god created the world in 7 days. but what does a day mean to an entity that time means nothing to??

In fact...'a day' wasn't defined before he created earth and the sun.
Besides...has a day always been the same amount of time? I doubt it.

[manwithredbike]

of course theres no god. religion is all about exploitation of humans longing for a better life when the worms are eating them. blindly follow us and do as we say (and give us money) and you'll go to heaven. could a true christian be happy in heaven when others from other religions are having a hard time in hell? what about the people who never heard of religion/god and just don't know any better - will they suffer the agony of hell? which religion/god is the real mc coy etc etc etc.
another doubter -- ah my son, just close your eyes and keep sucking, then you will see the light!!

[Redkite2]

Most likely on video, bet he got Lord of the Rings on DVD though .

[Plum]

Just flicked through this, but some interesting thoughts. Thought i would offer mine.

I was bought up a roman catholic, had the usual baptism and confirmation, but was never a church goes as such. I wanted the big white wedding at that church, etc. My mum died when i was 22 and it left me thinking about why mum, who was just the best, was taken, but there are people who have commited such disgusting crimes left to have a life in prison. Doesnt seem fair really.

I never slate anyones beliefs, they obviously find some comfort in it, and should be allowed to voice thier opinions. But for me i have no faith, but have an interest in Buddhism and think that its the best way to go.

Just my thoughts

[conner]

religion is all about exploitation of humans longing for a better life when the worms are eating them. blindly follow us and do as we say (and give us money) and you'll go to heaven. could a true christian be happy in heaven when others from other religions are having a hard time in hell? what about the people who never heard of religion/god and just don't know any better - will they suffer the agony of hell? which religion/god is the real mc coy etc etc etc.
another doubter -- ah my son, just close your eyes and keep sucking, then you will see the light!!
i disagree, while i'm not a big fan of church and its rigid teachings, i did go to church as a child. there is a lot of negative media coverage surrounding religion but as a child i witnessed a lot of more basic good goings on. such as reading books to old people and a general social support network that seemed stronger than what you might see in the general joe public. when was the last time you introduced yourself to a new member of the comunity with a cake or a box of beers? people that went over on missions to help impoverished people etc. religion has certainly been used by greedy and powerful people to exploit others but perhaps it also provides some sort of hope for those who have lost faith in humanity and are in need of an alternative. i get the feeling that modern day religion is moving towards a more generic mindset and you can see there is a lot of communication between faiths these days. so in turn there might be a more general acceptance that you can believe in your own way so long as you believe in god. then again i haven't been to church for 10 years and maybe they are now all getting naked and the priests are whipping the congregation with freshly peeled willow twigs while post 80 year old men chase imported himilayan mountain goats around and all children under the age of 13 are hung from the ceiling with blindfolds on...

[squiffything]

What Church did you say you were in ?!? ;)

[conner]

church? did i say church? whoops, i was thinking about my mothers book club...

[mark cross]

Strange question, I know, but I am struggling with understanding what is happening in the world...

Can god chose to do right and wrong?

Can god change his/her mind?

And if god can then does that make any difference to how we should behave?

Can god chose to change his/her 'master plan'?

Sorry if its too deep or touchy, but I need to others opinions on this one...
God cannot choose to do wrong. It is not a choice available to him.
God can change his mind, the bible give s examples of this.
If we are to behave by Christian teachings we should follow his guidlines as set out in the bible and as taught by christian ministers.
Gods master plan is already set (Jesus/cross/resurrection/choice to believe etc), he doesnt need to change it.
Everyone searches for meaning in life, it shouldnt be an off limit subject. If you were looking for a bike you`d ask for guidance, why not on the massive matters of life?
:)

[ricky]

:eyepopping: mark i know what you'd ask god...... y am i bald????:biggrin:
i know what i'd ask him! why am i .......... so PERFECT!!!

[manwithredbike]

when was the last time you introduced yourself to a new member of the comunity with a cake or a box of beers?

every time i meet anyone with cake and beers i make a point of introducing myself to them.

seriously tho, thet's just being good natured, not religious.

[conner]

that was my point, they tended to be a good natured bunch. more so than the prick who nearly bowled me running a red light the other day... i'm sure he doesnt go to church