Headlights On...........

[Didge]

Now this subject raises it's ugly head from time to time, but I've got to bring it up again for a very important reason.
We all know the Highway Code 'recommends' having one's lights on during the day, and the reasons why, but I've never been 100% convinced. I've always been concerned that with the rough road surfaces we suffer, and the harder (than cars) suspensions on bikes, that drivers could mistake the 'bobbing' dipped beam as flashing them to go. I think my fears may be proving true.
When I got wiped out by the old biddy last June at 2pm in the afternoon, I didn't have my lights on. Since then, I've had them on during the day, and STILL get the odd pratt crossing my path. The scary thing is though, twice in recent months, the last one was today, a car has turned in front of me......AND THEN WAVED THANK YOU.:eyepopping:
I fear that this may prove that there is some substance in my above theory. Has this happened to anyone else? Has there been any indepth testing that daylight lights are safe?
I'm not convinced.

[Banshee]

I agree D, a close one, but i think im on the ON side of the fence. Most peeps in general i think know a bike has its lights on. But close.

[Scotty]

errm side lights only perhaps

or even better a blue headlight, most cars stop when the see flashing blue lights (though with more and more 'ice white' blue hues of headlight bulb i think people take less and less notice ), however the police dont like it (as r kid brother found out a few years ago)

umm just today a car pulled out not on me but on the car in front of me , the only thing is he looked at us then the other way and then went but then stopped when he realised he's pulled out on a car. just like the current bike crash advert ,kinda. looked but didn't register anything

im sure the sweedish ? goverment have some sort of stats to prove its a good thing with volvos n sabbs having daylight running lights

[sjr999r]

just a natural thing to do..for me .helmet.gloves ignition.....lights on..warm-up........blast.....and be a noisey BASTARD:D :D :D :D

[Monkey Boy]

Having been riding since '88 I have always had my headlight on and have had no scares. Maybe I have just been lucky.

When I am in a car at a T-junction it is easier to see a bike with its headlight on than off. However, if I was riding on a bumpy road and the traffic was so bad that drivers will take risks to get out, I would most likely switch off the headlight to avoid giving car drivers a mistaken signal that they can pull out in front of me.

It is down to your personal preference at the end of the day.

Cheers.

[SazzaG]

errm side lights only perhaps

Did you know that's illegal?

I was surprised to find that out myself - I was told while having an advanced driving lesson in my car. Apparently you're only supposed to use your sidelights when parked, or something like that.

I have to say that I've never had any problems with having my lights on during the day. The only thing about the lights is, especially on the jap bikes (which seems to have very bright ones), it's sometimes difficult to judge the speed of the bike.

Saz

[sadbiker]

All bikes will have headlights on as standard. Ducati has already started.

[STIVH]

Problem is nowadays that our roads are so pot holed that when riding with lights on drivers who are less observant will think you have just flashed them to let them out, same problem with road humps. My nephew has seen two nasty prangs with cars near to the site of two shallow built sleeping policemen that have recently occured near a junction where the opposing vehicle assumed that they were flashed out by the advancing cars. Both "offending" drivers apparently swore blind that they were offered right of way when the other car flashed them.

Having lived in Sweden I was led to understand that due to the long hours of darkness and the poor weather conditions the government made it compulsory for lights to be on as it was easier than trying to enforce it and more practible if inbuilt into the vehicles ignition. Also when summer came along and the longer daylight hours arrived the vehicle would be easier to see because of the brighter sunshine and shorter but quicker nightfall that occures. It wasn't based on just accident figures. Just practible.

I always try and ride in the middle of the road and always try and make sure that I anticipate what the other driver is doing before he/she does it. Think ahead and don't trust anyone. Mostly without the light on.

[Phoenix]

When I had a headlight it was always on.

[mattjhall2003]

Now this subject raises it's ugly head from time to time, but I've got to bring it up again for a very important reason.
We all know the Highway Code 'recommends' having one's lights on during the day, and the reasons why, but I've never been 100% convinced. I've always been concerned that with the rough road surfaces we suffer, and the harder (than cars) suspensions on bikes, that drivers could mistake the 'bobbing' dipped beam as flashing them to go. I think my fears may be proving true.
When I got wiped out by the old biddy last June at 2pm in the afternoon, I didn't have my lights on. Since then, I've had them on during the day, and STILL get the odd pratt crossing my path. The scary thing is though, twice in recent months, the last one was today, a car has turned in front of me......AND THEN WAVED THANK YOU.:eyepopping:
I fear that this may prove that there is some substance in my above theory. Has this happened to anyone else? Has there been any indepth testing that daylight lights are safe?
I'm not convinced.

Mine is on permanently on my S2R, but i would have it on anyway. I think the people pulling out on you are just the usual jelly brained idiots that bikers all get a taste of at some time or another.

Just because you have your lights on ....doesn't mean they aren't out to get you!!!:twak:

[Phoenix]

I think the rule of thumb is generally one of - any car at a junction then PRESUME it's gonna pull out on you - lights or not don't matter, if they are going to they will.

No-one gives a **** thesedays car or bike!

[Mand]

On, on the Monster.

The DRZ - can't switch them off. Permanently on. Four wheeled gits still don't like me. Perhaps they don't like my googles? :rolleyes:

Oh yeah, saw a woman putting her make up on whilst driving into work yesterday - now that should be against the law because she still looked ugly!

[MilesB]

All bikes will have headlights on as standard. Ducati has already started.
Recent bikes don't even have a light switch - they are on as long as the ignition is on - no option.

[dlloyduk]

Lights on and Can Volume up loud.
There will always be a tosser who will pull out, at least if they saw your lights they may have a chance at stopping before its to late.
Besides its no defence to say that you flashed them out, because flashing headlights is meant as a warning only, its a misused thing particularly in this country.:thumbsdown:

[rxtim]

I always ride with lights on, another tip I had from a police driver was to move left or right if cars are waiting at a junction since drivers are more likely to notice the movement than you just travelling in a straight line.

[gary tompkins]

I think the rule of thumb is generally one of - any car at a junction then PRESUME it's gonna pull out on you - lights or not don't matter, if they are going to they will.

No-one gives a **** thesedays car or bike!


Same here. Lights on but always assume the f**kwits will pull out regardless and ride accordingly - especially around town. Sandra still has them pull out on the trike and that's lit up like a :cens: ing christmas tree!

Even eye contact is no indication that they have actually seen you. Driver is probably too busy pissing about with sat nav, mobile phone, CD autochange, ipod, faffing with kids out on back seat etc.. to give a toss about the biker flying over thier bonnet anyway :grump:

[Duncan]

When I got wiped out by the old biddy last June at 2pm in the afternoon, I didn't have my lights on. Since then, I've had them on during the day, and STILL get the odd pratt crossing my path.


Didge

Do you think you may be a marked man and this is some sort of conspiracy by these old biddies to get you alongside them in bed in a nursing home?

Or maybe its the parka jacket with a big bullseye target that draws them magically in your direction.

Or is it pay back time by some sinister underground vigilante group for all the late arrivals, closed doors, missed platforms, jerky starts, emergency stops that you unwittingly did during your driving career?

Look out Paranoid Didge!

[Rod]

I always ride with lights on, another tip I had from a police driver was to move left or right if cars are waiting at a junction since drivers are more likely to notice the movement than you just travelling in a straight line.

Wot he said.

There is a phenomenon called 'motion camouflage' which some predatory insects use to attack stationary prey which has been linked with SMIDSY type accidents, involving cars pulling out on bikes.

Basically, if you are moving along a certain trajectory towards a stationary object (car in a junction) you can appear to be still or moving very slowly. Best bet is to move about a bit on approach.

I know people who've been t-boned with their lights on, I know people who've been t-boned with their lights off, I don't think it makes any difference.

FWIW, I only put my lights on in reduced visibility, I have a black bike, black helmet and predominantly black clothing. I move about a LOT when I'm approaching junctions with cars in them (or ones I cant see into) and I've not had a car pull out on me yet in umpteen years of motorcycling.

You can draw your own conclusions. :mand:

[spacemonkey]

Of course, I ride in the daylight hours with main beam on, and have never been knocked off, but evidently the Self Righteous think I'm a Tw@t. Supposedly my puny 60w bulb will cause permanent blindness and allow slithering plants to rule the world as everyone will have been blinded by my lights, even though the bright yellow thing in the sky is considerably brighter....


Incidentally, whilst sat in your car in traffic how often do bikes with low beam on filter past? When did you notice them? As they rode past? Be honest on this one... With a Main Beam Tw@t coming up behind, the glare in your mirrors flashes in your peripheral vision and draws your attention. A glowing dipped beam just doesn't do it I'm afraid...

But what would i know?

[NewMon]

Unless I'm on the 'open' (where) road in the middle of the hottest, brightest summers day, I ride with lights. The trick to avoid being taken out at T junctions is to be aware of the threat and then use the width of the road and move to where the driver has a better chance of seeing you (the middle probably). The movement helps them see you as well. Remain aware of the treat and work out in advance what you are going to do if they do pull out. This is why riding a bike is so much more interesting than driving a car :-)

I am also of the Main Beam persuasion when filtering. Anything that gets you noticed. Most drivers think you are a twat anyway. Why disappoint them? If they are giving you the finger, at least they can see you. Heh.

[Didge]

another tip I had from a police driver was to move left or right if cars are waiting at a junction since drivers are more likely to notice the movement than you just travelling in a straight line.

A very good tip, and one I've practiced for a long time. Also, with experience, one can anticipate what is going to happen, and that's why these idiots didn't get me. The problem is though, that one day, someone does get you, as I found out.
In my case, I wonder how many riders would have been able to avoid a collision? There are some situations that no one can anticipate. In fact, over the years, I've seen a few cops wiped off their bikes by dozy c**ts in cars.
Scenario:-
2pm, a clear day with some cloud. Dry road, and good visibillity. In fact, perfect conditions for riding / driving.
The road is dead straight, with no gradiants, no parked vehicles on the road, the pavement is set back from the road by about15 feet by a wide grass verge. 40mph speed limit.
I'm travelling along this road, at 40 mph, and there is a car a long way ahead of me. Another car is coming in the opposite direction to me. I notice that this car is not going fast, but niether is it creeping along. It has no turn indicators flashing.
As I get about 10-12' away from it, the car suddenly, and without warning turns across my path. IMPACT!
One just cannot anticipate a situation like that.
The photos below show the crash scene, and visibility. The visibility is virtually the same as the day it happened.
http://i2.tinypic.com/snnd6e.jpg
The photo above (taken from Jan's car), is of my view, as it was just before the RTA.

http://i2.tinypic.com/snneya.jpg
This is the view, the woman had from her car, just before she turned into the road on the right......and she said "I didn't see him".

[NewMon]

You're right Didge! I don't know what you can do in that situation. If there was no traffic approaching the main road from the junction then I may have moved (slightly) towards the left as I approached the junction. That probably wouldn't have helped though. You can't legislate for idiots can you? What was the outcome of this sorry state of affairs?

[Didge]

What was the outcome of this sorry state of affairs?

She was prosecuted for driving with undue care & attention. £250.00 fine, £70.00 costs & 6 points on her licence.
Her insurance has admitted liability, and have paid out for the (written off) bike.
I am waiting for my expenses to be paid. The main pay out for my injuries, and the fact that I lost my job because of it, will probably take some years.
The annoying thing is, under the laws of this country, if I'd been killed, she probably would have got done for the same offence, and paid the same in fines etc.

[Gilps]

There was a local much publicised case last year where a lorry driver pulled out of a junction on the left to turn right, straight in front of a guy on his Bonnie. The bike rider died instantly. He had many years riding experience and by all accounts was an acomplished rider. The court case was earlier this month. I think the driver got 6 points and his employer kept his job open for him as he has a valid driving licence. He's still driving big gravel lorries around South Cerney. How can you take another persons life with any motor vehicle, bike, car, lorry, bus, and still be allowed to drive. I accept that accidents happen. We all make mistakes. But if you kill somebody with one of your mistakes surely you have proved that you are capable of killing someone. What's to say it won't happen again. I think each case should be taken on its merits. Not all drivers need to be impirsoned for their actions, but I do believe it should be a lifelong ban. Anything else is gambling with the next persons life.

[MrsJel]

Have no option but to ride with lights on now, have always done so, even when a nipper on CB100.

No near misses on the bike (touch wood).

In the car last night though, I was approaching a t-junction, noted that there was a car sitting waiting to pull out, just as I got to the junction, she pulled out.
If she could miss (just) a golf with lights on, what chance a bike?

Carole

[Didge]

Didge

Do you think you may be a marked man and this is some sort of conspiracy by these old biddies to get you alongside them in bed in a nursing home?

Or maybe its the parka jacket with a big bullseye target that draws them magically in your direction.

Or is it pay back time by some sinister underground vigilante group for all the late arrivals, closed doors, missed platforms, jerky starts, emergency stops that you unwittingly did during your driving career?

Look out Paranoid Didge!

You may have a point there Dunc, but I take exception to the " jerky starts & emergency stops". In fact, I was the one who, after you were waiting for 15 minutes appeared with 10 other trains stacked up behind me.
"Is that the time? Oh dear, I'm about 20 minutes late. Never mind, nothing a nice cuppa can't fix when I get to Edgware".
Never bothered trying to run to timetable. It was imposible, so just trundled along, nice and relaxed.:D

[nealenet]

I have no option on the S4R, allways on however the real danger I currrenty experience at junctions are these spinners! I nearly went over the handlebars the other day when a chav mobile stopped at a junction but the wheels still appeared to be moving at speed. Fortunatly I was on my push bike at the time and stayed upright. But they really should be out lawed even if it is for being utterly tasteless.

[Gilps]

They are outlawed. A car will fail its MOT if they are fitted. Unless of course they take it to the same guy who passes all our loud exhausts and small no. plates.:)

[manwithredbike]

i always ride with me lights on now. moving across your lane when approaching a junction as mentioned earlier always helps to get noticed by cars waiting to pull out. move across in the direction away from the side the cars are on.
another problem is people in a hurry or stuck at a busy junction. the instantaneous subconcious 'risk assessment' which goes on in the brain of these people - if an artic is approaching - the likelyhood of it hitting me if i pull out = maybe - the consequences if it does = catestrophic for me - do not pull out. if an scooter or bike is approaching - the likelyhood of it hitting me if i pull out = maybe - the consequences if it does = not too bad for me - have a go, pull out, i'm late for work/appointment etc. we all do it, even when crossing the road.
there's no easy answer. you just gotta advertise your presence as best you can by lights, noise etc, get your speed down, position yourself as best as possible for an 'escape strategy' and hope for the best.

[gary tompkins]

Wise words indeed. Another factor is that the more manufacturers cacoon car drivers with safety features such as air bags, crumple zones, safety cells, ABS etc.. the less they feel threatened by other vehicles - particularly 2 wheelers. I fear that bikers are falling further down the potential threat list - hopefully the recent "Think Bike" TV campaigns will help to swing things in our favour?

[Pugi]

Having lived in Sweden I was led to understand that due to the long hours of darkness and the poor weather conditions the government made it compulsory for lights to be on as it was easier than trying to enforce it and more practible if inbuilt into the vehicles ignition. Also when summer came along and the longer daylight hours arrived the vehicle would be easier to see because of the brighter sunshine and shorter but quicker nightfall that occures. It wasn't based on just accident figures. Just practible.


Correct. Swedish bought vehicles cannot turn of their headlights. And regardless of time of day or year it is a LOT easier to spot cars or bikes. Not sure the law came about because of weather conditions, just the fact it's always easier to spot one another.
Said this, we still have to put up with people who have no idea what's going on on the roads.
A reason for Didge being 'thanked' may have to do with it being more difficult to judge the speed of one headlight than two.

[S4Rs-Tone]

whats peoples ideas of the xenon type lights with the bluey haze do u think this could help us stand out just a little bit more?

[Nonnie]

My other half had what I must assume are those headlights on his last bike. They were certainly blue tinged, and bright, and terrifying! I always had to follow him because if he followed me, and he was on an uneven road, the lights bouncing up and down looked like a flashing police light. If he was in front, the amount of cars that got out of the way was incredible. Perhaps this is the way forward?

[spacemonkey]

No, I think laser beams to burn out their retinas is the way forward.