Rounding things

[Pugi]

So I've rounded yet another hex bolt head. Damn brass. But this time it's worse than usual since it's my oil drain plug which is somewhat difficult to turn in any other way. I know this is a common mishap so does anyone know of a cunning way to get it?
Welding a bolt to it would be easy enough...if I had a welder, but I don't.

[gary tompkins]

Could be a bit of a nightmare mate. The plug uses an allen key socket so if rounded will be a sod to get out. Cheap allen keys are usually such a poor that you are better off using a pukka 1/2" drive hex bit, plus this lets you tighten it to the correct torque setting. I got one for my socket set from Halfords for about £5.

I don't think there's much plug sticking out to get hold of, but you may be able to loosen it with mole grips, and then if the hex sockets not too chewed undo it with a key? If it's been overtightened in the first place it can be a real PITA :thumbsdown: Getting some heat into the sump around the plug may help as the alloy should expand faster than the plug.

If the plug is made of steel you could try tack welding a bolt or chunk of hex bar (old allen key) to it, but you'll need to be careful not to overheat the sump casting.

[Pugi]

In my defense it's my first oil change and hence I didn't tighten it. And I did use a drive hex bit etc. when rounding it. I also have a torque wrench so as to not over tighten things. I've allready ordered a new plug and learnt that they're made of brass and not available in steel. I think the plug rotated ever so slightly before rounding, but there's only 2 or so mms sticking out. I tried mole grips but they keep slipping and/or chewing the edge.
I'm planning on buying some drive torx bits and pound the appropriate size into the chewed up hex socket and see if that grips. Leaving for overseas on Tuesday and staying the rest of the month so it'll have to wait and until then I'll ponder a bit.

[manwithredbike]

if all else fails, use a small cold chisel and a hammer. the plug is a fairly wide affair which sits proud, so if you use the hammer and chisel, you'll get a grip of it at the edge fairly easily. you should be able to force it round using a few firm hits. you may need a replacement plug afterwards. as g.t. sad a bit of heat would also help.
i'm not a big fan of using welders on or around engines. prob just a bit paranoid since i warped a casing on an old triumph many years ago.

[Pedro]

Pugi

I had the very same problem. I ended up buying a bigger hex drive and filing it down so it was just bigger than the plug. I then hammered it into the plug and put a long breaker bar on it.

I wouldn't use a cold chisel on it though, it'll chew it up the plug too much. When you fit the new one, make sure you use copper grease on the threads

Ped

[Ozcat]

I had a similar problem but on a smaller scale. I got a screw extractor set of ebay and got the offending rounded off screw out in no time. They work by cutting a tappered opposite handed thread into the screw then when it reaches its limits starts to undo the screw. May just work.

[wetsump]

Here's a suggestion, but I will advise you that it may be a bit messy.. Since the sump plug is made of brass, we know it is soft. (Sorry - statement of the blindingly obvious). If it is soft, then it will drill very easily. So - very carefully - drill up into the sump plug enough to get a standard bolt extractor to fit. The bolt extractor I am thinking of is like a large thread wood screw (with a tapered thread), but it cunningly has a left hand thread. So the more you screw it in (anticlickwise), the greater the chance of the sump plug coming out. They are available from most tool stores.

So why may it be messy? Well, if you end up going right through the sump plug, you risk having 3.5litres of mucky motor oil slowly drain itself through the small hole you've just made. Make sure the oil filler cap is in place, and the vacuum created inside the sump should stop the oil coming out while you work to remove the plug. Wait until you've got your new sump plug before starting this job. At least you can (presumably) ride the bike right now, and when the new plug arrives you will understand how much brass is available to drill through. Also, make sure your hex driver of choice is a snug fit in the new plug - ready for tightening.

There is a danger of getting brass swarf inside the sump either when drilling or when using the bolt extractor - so be prepared to flush the sump out with plenty of clean oil before fitting your new plug (torqued to the right setting and with a new aluminium washer).

Good luck

[Pedro]

Guys

as much as bolt extractors work on small threads, I'd be amazed if they would be strong enough to shift a stuck sump plug, these things are tight! I've broken more Easy Outs than I had success with.

Pugi - you could try a Torx tool, the star shaped end will bite into the brass quite well. The hex drive I filed down was a little bigger and I filed teeth on to it to bite in, a Torx may do the same.

You could also heat the sump plug up (not the case) to stretch the threads a little (worked for me on a seized cylinder head stud). Once you've done that and it's cooled down, hammer the Torx/Hex in, then heat the case only and hopefully that should shift it

Ped

[Sparky]

Make sure the oil filler cap is in place, and the vacuum created inside the sump should stop the oil coming out while you work to remove the plug.

You would also need to block the breather to create a vacuum I think.

Personally I'd give a Torx tool a try first.

Chris

[nick40]

Exactly to the word how I would do it, just finished rebuilding my bike and had to remove a fair few chewed up and seized bolts etc, get a decent set of bolt extractors and follow this mans advice

Here's a suggestion, but I will advise you that it may be a bit messy.. Since the sump plug is made of brass, we know it is soft. (Sorry - statement of the blindingly obvious). If it is soft, then it will drill very easily. So - very carefully - drill up into the sump plug enough to get a standard bolt extractor to fit. The bolt extractor I am thinking of is like a large thread wood screw (with a tapered thread), but it cunningly has a left hand thread. So the more you screw it in (anticlickwise), the greater the chance of the sump plug coming out. They are available from most tool stores.

So why may it be messy? Well, if you end up going right through the sump plug, you risk having 3.5litres of mucky motor oil slowly drain itself through the small hole you've just made. Make sure the oil filler cap is in place, and the vacuum created inside the sump should stop the oil coming out while you work to remove the plug. Wait until you've got your new sump plug before starting this job. At least you can (presumably) ride the bike right now, and when the new plug arrives you will understand how much brass is available to drill through. Also, make sure your hex driver of choice is a snug fit in the new plug - ready for tightening.

There is a danger of getting brass swarf inside the sump either when drilling or when using the bolt extractor - so be prepared to flush the sump out with plenty of clean oil before fitting your new plug (torqued to the right setting and with a new aluminium washer).

Good luck

[Pugi]

So why may it be messy? Well, if you end up going right through the sump plug, you risk having 3.5litres of mucky motor oil slowly drain itself through the small hole you've just made.

Not a problem, I can drain most of the oil by taking off the 2nd oil filter (forgot the 'proper name) and tilting the bike.


There is a danger of getting brass swarf inside the sump either when drilling or when using the bolt extractor - so be prepared to flush the sump out with plenty of clean oil before fitting your new plug (torqued to the right setting and with a new aluminium washer).

Not sure exactly what it looks like but all sump plugs I've seen have a magnet, not only picking up crap like this but making it very hard to go all the way through.

I think a bolt extractor would be a very difficult solution as Ped said. As I mentioned I'm probably going to test with a torx first and if that doesn't work I'll try the chisel even though I suspect it might go straight through. I've tried the torx method on a smaller scale and it works sometimes but not always. You need the exact right size and the material can't be too soft.

I'll think about it and execute your ideas one by one once I return from holidays. Thanks guys!

[Starter Sprag]

Hope all goes well getting old bolt out.

Before you fit the new one, have a good look at it, the hex seems to be tapered.

In order to get a good purchase, you'll need to file your hex key to suit.

Lightly hammer hex bit in, making sure it goes right down to bottom of drain plug, coat threads with copper-slip first, use new crush washer, torque to spec.

When done, gently tap hex from side to side to free, job done !

[Kiwi]

you could try supergluing an allen key into the drain plug and when the glue has set see if this will allow you to undo the screw

have not tried this myself but have seen it recommended on other sites

[Pugi]

Before you fit the new one, have a good look at it, the hex seems to be tapered.

It's what! :mad:
How can the be so... :cens:
Good to know though.


you could try supergluing an allen key into the drain plug and when the glue has set see if this will allow you to undo the screw
have not tried this myself but have seen it recommended on other sites

Been thinking about this, but what kind of compound would settle and stick to the oily, greasy surface of the oil plug?

Once again thanks for the help gents, it's well appreciated.:thumbsup:

[Pedro]

Pugi

this is what I used - it started life as a 12mm hex key till I got the file to it and tapered it slightly and added teeth!

Ped

[Pugi]

this is what I used - it started life as a 12mm hex key till I got the file to it and tapered it slightly and added teeth!

Thanks Ped. Looks like I can save some filing on simply buying a 12mm torx and tapering that. :idea:

[Pugi]

Ok...it's out! I started out with rounding it as mentioned - mole grips wouldn't bite, T50 torx was too big. I then tried to chisel the plug out but the brass was too soft again. Instead I used the chisel to cut out a V-shape edge in the head and use pin punches to persuade it out.

No luck.

So I adopted Pedro's idea, except I used a T60 torx plug that I tapered a bit with the neighbour's grinder. This became my magic tool:

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f150/Frenum/oil029.jpg

Pounded the damn thing in and it gripped rather nicely and out it finally came, looking like this:

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f150/Frenum/oil027.jpg

Slightly butchered I admit, but how can they be so stupid that they taper the hex fitting? Compare to the new plug if you will:

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f150/Frenum/oil028.jpg

Anyway...it's out and I'm well happy, thanks to all for your help and suggestions! :hail:

[Pedro]

Feck! That looks messy.

Nice job on tapering the torx bit, tidier than the mk1 Pedro version!!

Ped

[Pugi]

It was a bit messy
Thanks, it was a bit hard, the grider was really good so a steady hand was needed. Tapered a 12 mm hex to see if it might work better when tightening the new plug and that was very hard to do properly by free hand. Worse was that it didn't work. When I turned it, it creeped out so 10 mm hex it had to be.

[Pedro]

Did you grease the threads before putting the new sump plug in?

Makes it easier to get out next time

[Pugi]

Did you grease the threads before putting the new sump plug in?

Makes it easier to get out next time

Copper paste rules!
Add to that a properly tightening with torque wrench. :thumbsup:

[nealenet]

Can I just add my two penneth here. When you have snapped off the stud extractor and set fire to your bike by welding bits of screws onto it, then realized that it is impossible to hammer things into it unless you turn the whole bike upside down just do what I tend to do.... just ride it to your Ducati specialist and let them do it. A lot less satisfying I know but the job will be done without making a bigger balls up than it is already.
As they say..."Men. Know your limits!"

[Pugi]

"Men. Know your limits!"

No real men know their limits. :ymca: