Help with Cornering/Handling

[AdrianS]

I've had my Monster 600 for 4 months now and done about 1500 miles on it.
However, I do not feel the bike corners as it should. It appears to whallow or weave and not steer a straight line around bends.
The bike has not been damaged; covered about 4500miles from new and the tyres appear in good condition.
I've tried playing with the rear shock settings and tyre pressures but these make little difference. I am not a heavy person - about 11 stones kitted out but the bike feels too firm and this may be causing the problem I think.
I like the bike but just lack confidence on it when trying to chuck it around bends!

Any advice or suggestions please?

Adrian

[nik_codling]

Adrian,

You may well be correct in your assumption that the suspension is too hard. Have you tried backing off the damping on the rear shock? I'm guessing you have, going by your post.

Ultimately, it's not a terribly sophisticated shock, and if your pockets are deep enough a higher spec replacement would make a hell of a difference. More damping adjustment both on the rebound and compression.

Failing that, Racetec do great kits for re-valving your shock and forks. It's tailored to your weight and riding style. PDQ sell them. Very good by all accounts, popular in the US (must be the bread in the hamburgers)

Nik

[NattyBoy]

Some good advice from Nik.

Unless your really gunning it (not an option this time of the year!!), then even if your suspesnion is hard it sounds more than that.

the 'doesnt steer in a straight line round bends' bit. Do you mean it just wont hold a line ? If this is the case I'd say your experiencing understeer. How far up is the back end ..have a look at how much thread is showing at the bottom of the suspension hoop (assuming its an earlier one) and post a pic up if you can..

Also..dont underestimate the effect of a good tyre. You will TRANSFORM the handling if youve got some dodgy hoops on and change to some pirelli diabolos or similar.

My 600 wouldnt go round bounds until I started fiddling with it and it was a whippet when I finished with it !!

Good luck
Nat

[gary tompkins]

Also..dont underestimate the effect of a good tyre. You will TRANSFORM the handling if youve got some dodgy hoops on and change to some pirelli diabolos or similar.

I think Nat may have hit the nail on the head. I had a similar lack of confidence in my 600, and kacked myself on it every time it rained. That turned out to be crap tyres, as the O/E Dunlop 205's were over 4 years old and the bike had less than 2000 mile on the clock. Swapped to Pirelli dragon evos, and riding it home from the fitters it gripped better on wet roads with un-scrubbed Pirelli's, than it ever did on the 205's.

Check the rear wheel alignment too as this can cause the bike to handle weird. Unless there is something major wrong with the set-up, or worn out suspension-wise then I suspect old tyres will be the root cause.

[AdrianS]

I assume the tyres to be the originals so probably worth changing them.
I have played with the rear damper setting but not with the spring setting.
Is there anything that can be done at the front end?

[NattyBoy]

Front will be fine I think..there actually too soft anyway. As Nik says, the rear shock is quite simple/unadjustable so dont think you need to worry too much there.

Tyres..raise the ride height and report back..think youll be impressed ;)

Nat

[nik_codling]

That's true, I had those awful Dunlop 204s on mine, I believe they were made of fossilised wood or something...

Nik

[Zimbo]

This might help

http://www.ukmonster.co.uk/monster/showthread.php?t=14156

Tyres can make a massive difference though.
It's also down to the surface you ride on, I was out on Sunday and the roads were extremely slippery, amazing how your confidence evaporates!

[gary tompkins]

Zimbo,

I tend to think of it as a confidence conversion rather than evaporation. I find that at times of extreme confidence conversion, my underpants fill in direct proportion to the scale of near death experience :lol:

Greasy roads + crap tyres = moderate skidmark (in underwear)

I new that physics & maths CSE would come in handy one day :burnout:

[sjr999r]

Tyres.........i had a pair of the most shocking tyres on the market Dunlops........they are totaly ****e,went got a set of Pirrelli diablos on,more feel,steering, turn-in,grip.just a 100% better bike,New hoops matey
Oh and go get the manual,set the shock back to the standard setting and the front forks if there adjustable,as rule...(my thoughts!)..if your not sure what your doing leave it well alone,there are ppl out there trained in suspension and when u explain to them what U feel...they will know where to go and pin point and adjust.
sjr999r

[Zimbo]

Zimbo,

I tend to think of it as a confidence conversion rather than evaporation. I find that at times of extreme confidence conversion, my underpants fill in direct proportion to the scale of near death experience :lol:

Greasy roads + crap tyres = moderate skidmark (in underwear)

I new that physics & maths CSE would come in handy one day :burnout:

Very true. After I left a major roundabout (dual carriageway) in second, changed up to third and gave it about two thirds throttle, and the rear wheel spun up and stepped sideways, I decided my confidence in the grip level had evaporated!!!

[AdrianS]

Dunlop Sportmax touring tyres on bike - original tyres I think - 4+ years old.
I will probably change these.

How do I set the rear shock preload? I know how to adjust it but what do I set it to?

[nik_codling]

Preload is set by measuring the sag of the bike and adjusting it to be approx 30% of the overall travel of the rear shock. Usually on a bike it's around about 15-20mm at the back (someone may wish to correct me on that figure).

Get a willing assistant, as you need to do a bit of lifting and measuring, so it's not really possible (or especially easy) to do it on your own.

With the bike upright, find an easy point on the back of the bike (underside of an indicator for example) and measure the distance straight down to the ground. This should be done with the rear suspension unloaded - in other words you need to physically lift the weight off the rear suspension and take out the static sag (the amount that the rear suspension compresses as a result of the weight of the bike pressing it down, if you catch my drift). Effectively, it's at the point at which the rear tyre is in contact with the ground, but not enough that the weight of the bike is starting to compress the suspension.

Now sit on the bike and take the same measurement. Subtract one from the other, and the figure you get is the sag. You may well find at the moment that you are getting something like 50-60mm of sag when you sit on the bike (possibly less if you of a more modest stature than myself!).

So what you need to do now is to tighten up the preload collars on the spring. You may find you need to take the measurements a few more times to get the desired effect.

Unfortunately you can't so easily do the same with the forks if yours are unadjustable, unless you start making spacers for the springs.

Have a mess about and let us know how you get on. I have to say that setting the sag is one of the single most effective mods you can make to your bike for free, as it means the suspension is entirely tailored to your weight.

Incidentally, you may find a better guide for doing this - I'm by no means a suspension guru! Others may wish to pick me up on the finer points along the way.

Cheeers,

Nik

[Zimbo]

Nik has it fairly well spot on, although personally I'd set the sag at 28mm. For an alternative method and measurements see the link I posted up earlier.

[AdrianS]

Thanks everyone!

I have taken on board all the advice and will report back when it is sorted!

[A Yerbury]

do the tyres first, have a word with phoenix as she and some of the other racey types are flogging nearly new diablos for about 50 Albanian pounds. Big difference, although at this time of year one can never be too cautious.

[spacemonkey]

50 Albanian pounds.

What's that? About 250 Lambert and Butlers on the Holloway High Street?

[A Yerbury]

What's that? About 250 Lambert and Butlers on the Holloway High Street?

which is about 75 golden virginia at the "Bank of Friendship" ...what's the name of that lairy gaffe on Blackstock Rd? the one with the violence and faux marble facade?

[target_practice]

I've had my Monster 600 for 4 months now and done about 1500 miles on it.
However, I do not feel the bike corners as it should. It appears to whallow or weave and not steer a straight line around bends.
The bike has not been damaged; covered about 4500miles from new and the tyres appear in good condition.
I've tried playing with the rear shock settings and tyre pressures but these make little difference. I am not a heavy person - about 11 stones kitted out but the bike feels too firm and this may be causing the problem I think.
I like the bike but just lack confidence on it when trying to chuck it around bends!

Any advice or suggestions please?

Adrian
Same thing for me. I bought my 620ie in Aug 2005, but it seems to tramline horribly, mainly from the front end; my previous Dukes were a 350 Sebring and 900GTS but none felt like this (I've also spent a few weeks in the saddle of a 900ss and a Pantah).
It's not the tyre pressures; could it be the headstock?

[sjr999r]

Headrace bearing????????,does it feel notchie,gritty,is so then it will be them,i had new ones put in mine.........different bike...........rode like a new one,mite be those

[target_practice]

Dunno, but I guess the head race bearings are mounted in the headstock ... ? Doesn't seem gritty, and I can't find any obvious play at the front, but I only have a rear paddock stand so it's not easy to diagnose. The bike's still under warranty, and I punted it back to Ducati London just before they went bust. It came back with some piddling stuff fixed and no word of explanation about the handling (incidentally they gave me a loaner which was as sweet as you like). I', trying to get some idea of what the problem might be being caused by, before I get it into a dealer to be looked at, 'cos I'm not going to be fobbed off again. The bike seems to slide over all white lines (I know they're made from powdered glass but this is ridiculous) and follows tramlines like a lemming. The bike's fine when you get it down, it's just when you begin to drop in. ****, maybe I'm just being a big fairy ... I have a big-ish ride tomorrow, about 130 miles, so I'll suck it and see .... again.

[gary tompkins]

Dunno, but I guess the head race bearings are mounted in the headstock ... ? Doesn't seem gritty, and I can't find any obvious play at the front, but I only have a rear paddock stand so it's not easy to diagnose. The bike's still under warranty, and I punted it back to Ducati London just before they went bust. It came back with some piddling stuff fixed and no word of explanation about the handling (incidentally they gave me a loaner which was as sweet as you like). I', trying to get some idea of what the problem might be being caused by, before I get it into a dealer to be looked at, 'cos I'm not going to be fobbed off again. The bike seems to slide over all white lines (I know they're made from powdered glass but this is ridiculous) and follows tramlines like a lemming. The bike's fine when you get it down, it's just when you begin to drop in. ****, maybe I'm just being a big fairy ... I have a big-ish ride tomorrow, about 130 miles, so I'll suck it and see .... again.

As was mentioned at the start of this thread....

TYRES - check condition tread depth and pressures. It'll take all of 15 mins of your time, and it's a waste of effort fault finding elsewhere until you establish they are 100% ok. My bet is you'll find the rear has 'squared off' -loosing its centre tread and profile.

The monster is also a relatively light and fast steering bike, making it very sensative to tyre wear or miss-match. In my own experience tram-lining or poor grip on white lines has always been caused by low tyre pressures, tread wear or old (hard) tyres - especially at rear.

[target_practice]

Gary me old china
Thanks a lot for that - I'll have a look right now. They are Diablos with 4,500 miles on them - what should I expect? The mileage I am doing is 12 miles daily London commute, + 300-400 miles per month weekend riding, mostly A/B roads, plus M-way to get there.

[gary tompkins]

The rear shouldn't be shagged out at 4500miles unless you ride like a loon, but it could have lost enough tread to effect the profile. I ran Dragon evo's on my 600 a few years ago, and had a similar problem. Fine until the rear had about 4-5000 miles on it, then the straight line stability went AWOL. I've run michelins (pilots) on the 900 for nearly 20k miles, and well happy with them TBH. Not as much outright grip as the pirellis but wear slower, and more evenly especially at the rear. This pair have done about 10K and the arse end has only just started to get "entertaining" in the wet :cool:

P.S. I don't ride like a loon :D

[target_practice]

The rear shouldn't be shagged out at 4500miles unless you ride like a loon, but it could have lost enough tread to effect the profile. I ran Dragon evo's on my 600 a few years ago, and had a similar problem. Fine until the rear had about 4-5000 miles on it, then the straight line stability went AWOL. I've run michelins (pilots) on the 900 for nearly 20k miles, and well happy with them TBH. Not as much outright grip as the pirellis but wear slower, and more evenly especially at the rear. This pair have done about 10K and the arse end has only just started to get "entertaining" in the wet :cool:

P.S. I don't ride like a loon :D
Mmm .... pressures are 30psi front, 31 rear which I think is OK? The front profile is fine - nice smoth "C" profile but the rear looks squared off - more like a "D" with six distinct edges to it (one flattened off section and another one on each side. This bike was a town demo bike until a bought it after 2,500 Chelsea miles, so I guess it was heavily squared off when I bought it and I'm niow doing interesting things to the profile. This would from the sound of it explain what's happening. Maybe I should just go in a straight line until I can afford a new rear tyre ....