Low voltage at starter relay problem

[Duchess]

I have a major electrical problem with my M600 that I was hoping somebody may be able to help me with.

The other day I got on it as usual and it did nothing when I pressed the starter button, all the lights were on OK as usual.

I thought it was the engine run switch so I turned it off and back on and all worked OK.

When I got home, I tried to start it again and this time nothing, flicking the engine stop switch made no difference.

I tried to bump it and nothing, I assume no sparks.

I have bypassed the engine stop switch and the sidestand switch and no difference.

I have run the starter direct off a car battery (eg bypassing the starter relay), the starter runs fine but it wont start (no spark?)

One strange thing I have noticed.

The voltage at the starter relay (low load side) is 2.5V - and it goes up to 12V when I disconnect both ICU's (ignition control units) - if just one is connected (either of them), the voltage at the starter button and relay is just 2.5V. Is this normal or an indication that the ICU's are both faulty?

Thanks for any replies....

Duchess

[rich]

Just to say that the engine should still spin , even if the ICU's
are U/S as they are for the ignition sys,

I would go steady with jumping with a car battery!!.........(cost me loads!!)

sounds like a relay to me

rich

[Unit 18]

Have you got an alarm?

[bod]

Cant see the (ICU'S) being anything to do with it the starter is seperate from the eninge managment system.
Not got a wiring diagram for your bike but imagine it goes starter switch through side stand to starter solenoid on low current side.
Other than that it is main battery cable through solenoid to starter but only whenj enegised by above mentioned circuit.
Loose earth?

[creepy]

(posted the following earlier this year bit of a long story but same symptoms as you,hope it helps! creepy )hello everyone,just fixed a long standing problem i've had with my 94 m600 and thought i,d share the experience in case it helps someone else.i,ve had the bike 15 months and in that time it's had an intermittent problem,every now and then the starter was dead when you pressed the button and every time you slowed down from speed ie:traffic lights,roundabouts the engine would cut-out but immediately re-start. i tried everything: hotter plugs,fst,draining the tank(water present)checked the choke,relays,ht leads,wiring connections etc, then in july 04 i snapped a cambelt on the m25 at 65mph,i limped the 5 miles home on one cylinder, put it in the back garden and went back to my old bmw. six months later i decided too see how much damage had been done to the piston and was amazed too find it unmarked,the valves where jammed closed! i bought a s/hand head,some new belts and believe or not it started 1st go(had spun the motor with plugs out 1st) a new m.o.t and tax and ive put it back to work commuting, just too find the old problem even worse,this time however when it 'played-up' i found that the ignition modules were only getting 2volts as was the starter button,these share the same feed from the kill switch via a 2into1 wire(brown) if you disconnected the ignition modules the brown feed went up too 11volts, by now i was confused! i rang a dealer for advice thinking the modules were at fault,a very helpful person advised me too check the wiring from the kill/starter below the connector near the headlamp bracket and sure enough the brown 2into1 wire was broken 3cms down from the connector, because of the pvc sheathing stuff it was still making contact when the bars were straight but not when they were turned,i'm still unsure why a break at this point would affect the current to the ignition modules but when checked it did,with it all re-solidered up the ignition now gets 11volts(not 12v?).
bike is now running spot-on!
the chap at the dealers said this was very common on early models,keep it in mind if you're having similar problems!
creepy

[Duchess]

Thanks for all the replies.

Rich - thanks, I only attached the car battery direct to the starter so it should be OK.

Unit 18 - no alarm involved, that would be the first thing I would check.

Bod - The ICU's power comes from the same place as the starter relay power, which is why I tested the voltage at them. Power goes through side stand switch, through engine kill switch, splits to 2, one goes to starter relay, one goes to ICU's. Loose earth is certainly a possibility, but there is nothing obvious.

Creepy, perfect thanks, I was guessing it was a problem with the main feed through the right hand switches, but as they all test OK for resistance I was stuck about exactly where to look - you have given me a very good starting point. I am also pleased that you had the same ICU voltage problem as that was really confusing me and making me think it was the ICU's at fault.

Will post back with further info after the weekend.....

[Duchess]

It was an intermittently faulty ignition relay which is not on the Haynes wiring diagram so I wasn't looking for it!

It is a Siemens V23073 relay and according to numerous hits in Google it is a known problem relay on Ducati's and Guzzi's.

Now I know why Italian electrics are slated at times.....

[PaulS]

It was an intermittently faulty ignition relay which is not on the Haynes wiring diagram so I wasn't looking for it!

It is a Siemens V23073 relay and according to numerous hits in Google it is a known problem relay on Ducati's and Guzzi's.

Now I know why Italian electrics are slated at times.....

Yes, but Siemens is a German company... Even now they mostly use Japanese and German electrical components the wiring itself is often poorly done and can still be troublesome. The starter motor relay often fails and is a Japanese part also used by Yamaha (where strangely it doesn't seem to cause as much grief).