London

[MikeG]

Any theories
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/london/4659093.stm

Olympics/G8
Al-Quaida?

Hope its not as bad as it looks :( :(

[SAMMYE]

Three buses ripped apart by explosions numerous explosions on the tubes the entire network has been closed down! many fatalities. Looking pretty bad I would say and Im in the middle of it :eek:

[MikeG]

Take care!!

Mobile Phone network seems to be down, that may have been jammed or switched off to prevent remote detonation of bombs as I believe happened in Madrid.

:mad: :mad: :( :(

From the BBC
A spokesman for Vodafone said emergency services were being given priority access to the mobile phone network which was causing problems for other users.

[Plum]

I have a mate in London and i have just spoken to him. Today was one of the very few days that he didnt go in the City Centre. His housemate however commutes everyday. My mate hasnt been able to get hold of him. I think his phone just keeps ringing out.

What a very rotten world we live in. I dont think for a minute that it was a 'power surge' as previoulsy mentioned! I think some people like to think that a city like London is immune from an attack such as this.

For any of you who travel to the city, i hope you are all okay.

L

[slob]

Well, Didge is off work so it ain't a natural build up of gas. The press are doing their usual speculation thing, so plenty of mis-information out there already no doubt.

[nik_the_brief]

Didge, bet you're glad not to be at work - small mercies eh!

Personally I think the French could have taken the news on losing the Olympics in 2002 a little better!! (sorry for the gallows humour to anyone of a delicate and sensitive disposition!)

[SAMMYE]

Im sure we will find some far away Country to reek revenge upon,

As George Bush said when he first took presidency bearing in mind we didnt really have an enemy due to the fall of communist Russia "I dont know who my enemies are yet, but when I find them I'm gonna beat them"

[peteS4]

well...... i started a new job on monday and was meant to be in the liverpool street area later today........... wasn't due to start till 3pm so have been told to stay at home and just for a call later about tomorrow....... guess i really am a lucky sod

[nik_the_brief]

I'm supposed to be in Court in Islington tomorrow and on Monday - not sure what the story's going to be though.

[paul620sie]

Please note; Vodaphone have shut thier network down except for non-emergeny calls according to BBC website. I expect other mobile networks will have done the same.

update at 15:15, again from BBC website
"Mobile phone services across London were jammed with all major networks reporting problems as people tried to contact relatives and friends. A spokeswoman for Vodafone said the emergency services were being given priority"

[peteS4]

think it will be ok tomorrow......... unless they blow more things up......... i would have been in either euston sq or liverpool st...... boss is in euston sq, says it a total shut down there and not to bother coming into work today

[DesmoDog]

I'm supposed to be in Court in Islington tomorrow and on Monday - not sure what the story's going to be though.

Just use your tried and tested "No-one saw me, you can't prove anything, everyone wears hoodies these day etc etc". What you up for this time nik?

I was working at the Tower gateway this time last week. Gotted dropped at Aldgate around 08:45 then walked over to Liverpools street from where I took the tube. I had considered the bus, but I'm crap at working out the labrynthine instructions so I walked most of the way - I know it's a bit like saying I was two numbers off the lottery, but it's a strange feeling. Back down there Monday.

[SAMMYE]

Think I will start riding into work on my Monnie instead of using the trains

[Boon]

My thourts go with all involved It's a SAD day.....!

[Chappers]

I have many work colleagues at Euston and Liverpool St and a few are the walking wounded - just waiting for some news.

Also, our MD is there today and nobody can seem to get hold of him :confused:

[nik_the_brief]

Al Quaida have just claimed responsibility.

[MikeG]

Al Quaida have just claimed responsibility.

Doesn't surprise me, where did you hear that?

[nik_the_brief]

BBC news 5 Live.

Apparently they just released a statement on their website.

[Boon]

WELL I AM WHATCHING SKY NEWS AND THAY SAY THAT THAY ALL THIBK THAT IT IS Al Quaida BUT "NO" ONE HAS TAKEN RESPONSIBILATY

[Chappers]

BBC news 5 Live.

Apparently they just released a statement on their website.

We're listening to that in the office and never heard that :confused:

[MikeG]

I have had a quick trawl through the web (not all of it) and can find nothing to claim it was Al-Q, not even on Aljazeerha.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/E4D19123-9DD3-11D1-B44E-006097071264.htm
or here
http://www.command-post.org/gwot/2_archives/019627.html

[Boon]

Didge you ok ????

[nik_the_brief]

Weird - I thought I was listening to 5 Live but it may not be, just the first station I could find on the radio here in my office.

It's actually a London station based in Leicester Square that I'm listening to, not sure which one though. They may have reported it wrong but were very specific.

Actually I think it's Capital Radio I'm listening to.

[MikeG]

Weird - I thought I was listening to 5 Live but it may not be, just the first station I could find on the radio here in my office.

It's actually a London station based in Leicester Square that I'm listening to, not sure which one though. They may have reported it wrong but were very specific.

I have just picked up this, "pinch of salt"?
http://www.back-to-iraq.com/archives/000884.php

[nik_the_brief]

Yep, it was them they were referring to, and it's just been reported for a second time on Capital a minute ago.

Quoted as saying inter alia "Britain is burning with fear".

They have a website - http://www.capitalfm.com

[DesmoDog]

Think I will start riding into work on my Monnie instead of using the trains


Sammye, if you'd been alongside that bus it wouldn't matter what you were in mate. Remember, that terror and confusion is the intention. The collateral damage is incidental compared to the physcological damage. Get on with your life as normal, the odds are in your favour of you making it to work. Then it's pretty easy for me to say that, I live in the NE and the nearest we've ever come to terror is some knacker with a half Irish uncle trying to firebomb the fuel bunkers outside my office.

[nik_the_brief]

http://www.capitalfm.com/Article.asp?id=98591

Their 'breaking news' page

[gary tompkins]

Didge you ok ????

You must have missed the thread about Didges recent prang. He's off work with a broken wrist at the moment - no doubt counting his blessings. Mind you he normally works the Northern line, and I'm not sure if that was targetted?

BBC news tally so far is 4 confirmed explosions (3 tube/1 bus) with a further 3 blasts unconfirmed on the underground. Hundreds of injured, with dozens in a critical condition and at least 4 confirmed fatalities.

Hope they manage to track down the sick bastards responsible for this! :mad:

[SAMMYE]

Sammye, if you'd been alongside that bus it wouldn't matter what you were in mate. Remember, that terror and confusion is the intention. The collateral damage is incidental compared to the physcological damage. Get on with your life as normal, the odds are in your favour of you making it to work. Then it's pretty easy for me to say that, I live in the NE and the nearest we've ever come to terror is some knacker with a half Irish uncle trying to firebomb the fuel bunkers outside my office.

yeah agreed, but I can continue albeit by bike surprised they didnt target any trains after all it so easy when they come into central London from far reaching stations with little or no security

[Dave in USA]

What a thing to wake up to...we are 8 hours behind here, I can't believe it. Hope everyone's ok?

Dave

[Gadget]

I was on a training course today in Middlesex Street. Between Aldgate and Liverpool street. The Police seemed to have everything in hand by the time I came home. Nobody seemed to panic just a lot of concerned people about.

[norrie]

Nightmare. :eek:

I've not heard anything as I've been in my bed most of the day (nightshift).
I'll need to go and watch the news.
I'm supposed to be going down to London in two weeks time to see Lenny Kravitz.
The thing is as previously stated you have to carry on as normal as they are trying to disrupt our everyday lives.



Norrie.

[nik_the_brief]

Well I just phoned the Court to ask if I need to go along to a (purely administrative) court hearing tomorrow morning in Islington only to be told that it's business as usual and no I can't just fax in the fact that I'm ready for my client's case to be heard.

Have no idea how long it's going to take to get there and back as I'm sure there'll be absolute chaos on the Underground tomorrow.

On the upside I've just heard on the radio that Blue have cancelled their concert this evening!

[Collie_dog]

Bloody hell.

I got in to work an hour ago, and heard about the bombings!!

Is everyone ok?

I've never been happier for Didge to have broken his wrist, i hope everyone who was in and around London, are ok and get home safely.

It's a crappy feeling to be this far away from home and have total wankers trying to blow up your capital city!!

Everyone in my office are in shock, and they keep asking if i want a cup of tea!

[scrumpster]

I heard it on the news at work, and we have been listening all day. I have chosen not to watch the news but am going to learn how to do an oil change on the bike instead. Saying that, my thoughts are with all those caught up in the carnage and I hope they get the barstewards who did it............ :(

[manc skank]

missed the bomb at edgware road by about 3 minutes. got stuck in the tube for 90 minutes just before kings cross after the second bomb. just got home now 2 1/2 hours walk home. feet hurt, miss my monster :(
i live opposite edgware road tube, they are still pulling bodies out apparantley...

[Phoenix]

missed the bomb at edgware road by about 3 minutes. got stuck in the tube for 90 minutes just before kings cross after the second bomb. just got home now 2 1/2 hours walk home. feet hurt, miss my monster :(
i live opposite edgware road tube, they are still pulling bodies out apparantley...

Blimey - lucky you.

Bad news they are still finding bodies though :(

[peteS4]

i started a new job on monday swapping out the old system and putting in xp pro for network rail........ i was in liverpool street station yesterday, was meant to be in euston for 3pm today and we were working in a signal/comms center through the night, i woke to find there was no way i could get into london..... and then told by boss the last thing network rail will be doing at the moment is letting anyone touch their systems !!!!!! which i can understand, so have spent the day at home and told to just get up tomorrow and be ready to jump on a train at 9am ish just incase they decide to let us in and do the swap out...... so at this moment in time i am on call for tomorrow too............... so far on my first week excluding the train travel i have only worked 12 hours. bored down loading music now, hope its all sorted for tomorrow...........

[Didge]

I have been fearing this for a long time. As far as I was concerned, it was never a case of if, but when.
I am only too pleased that I'm off sick at the moment.
Everyone in this country needs to realise, that the WHOLE blame for this outrage, lies at the door of Tony Blair and New Labour.
They have been constantly warned about the 'leaky borders' of this country, the problems of doing nothing about illegal immigrants and so called asylum seekers who enter with no papers in many cases.
Many have just 'disappeared'.
Blair and his cronies have only the other day, admitted that they have no idea how many 'illegals/asylum seekers' are over here.
Our government allows this to go on, and the normal people are murdered or injured as a result.
I have nothing but loathing and contempt for Blair and his party.

[Dave in USA]

It's a crappy feeling to be this far away from home and have total wankers trying to blow up your capital city!!

You hit the nail right on the head there Sam.

Dave

[Plum]

I have been fearing this for a long time. As far as I was concerned, it was never a case of if, but when.
I am only too pleased that I'm off sick at the moment.
Everyone in this country needs to realise, that the WHOLE blame for this outrage, lies at the door of Tony Blair and New Labour.
They have been constantly warned about the 'leaky borders' of this country, the problems of doing nothing about illegal immigrants and so called asylum seekers who enter with no papers in many cases.
Many have just 'disappeared'.
Blair and his cronies have only the other day, admitted that they have no idea how many 'illegals/asylum seekers' are over here.
Our government allows this to go on, and the normal people are murdered or injured as a result.
I have nothing but loathing and contempt for Blair and his party.

What line are you normally on Didge?

[OgriUK]

absolutely spot on didge....

[Didge]

What line are you normally on Didge?

The Northern Line. I believe it was not 'hit', thankfully.

[nik_the_brief]

I have been fearing this for a long time. As far as I was concerned, it was never a case of if, but when.
I am only too pleased that I'm off sick at the moment.
Everyone in this country needs to realise, that the WHOLE blame for this outrage, lies at the door of Tony Blair and New Labour.
They have been constantly warned about the 'leaky borders' of this country, the problems of doing nothing about illegal immigrants and so called asylum seekers who enter with no papers in many cases.
Many have just 'disappeared'.
Blair and his cronies have only the other day, admitted that they have no idea how many 'illegals/asylum seekers' are over here.
Our government allows this to go on, and the normal people are murdered or injured as a result.
I have nothing but loathing and contempt for Blair and his party.

Whilst I fully agree with the gist of what you're saying Didge it could just have easily been home-grown terrorists. 2nd or 3rd generation UK citizens. the same sort of mad bastards that volunteer to go to Iraq to fight against our lads. There's the rub, ID cards won't make an iota's difference and my money's on the bastards never being caught - just like Madrid.

[peteS4]

but what most people seem to forget is this is small compaired to the hight of the late 80's........ my dad had to get the train into cent london every single day and at that time the IRA would blow up a train each and every week............ you wouldn't know which one it would be or when, you just played lottery with your life everytime you went to work.................i know today is bad, its sad people died but many more died every week at the hands of the IRA and people still had to go to work and earn the money.......

[A Yerbury]

I have been fearing this for a long time. As far as I was concerned, it was never a case of if, but when.
I am only too pleased that I'm off sick at the moment.
Everyone in this country needs to realise, that the WHOLE blame for this outrage, lies at the door of Tony Blair and New Labour.
They have been constantly warned about the 'leaky borders' of this country, the problems of doing nothing about illegal immigrants and so called asylum seekers who enter with no papers in many cases.
Many have just 'disappeared'.
Blair and his cronies have only the other day, admitted that they have no idea how many 'illegals/asylum seekers' are over here.
Our government allows this to go on, and the normal people are murdered or injured as a result.
I have nothing but loathing and contempt for Blair and his party.

so assylum seekers/illegals did this? Bin Laden is an incredibly wealthy fella as are the people behind these networks, getting a radical to pose as a student from north africa is not difficult with that amount of dosh, after all it happened with 9/11? they were educated and well financed men, not refugees? don't wish to get all Guardian reader but scape-goating all foreigners is not the answer.

Alex.
ps.I hope you are feeling better though!

[A Yerbury]

but what most people seem to forget is this is small compaired to the hight of the late 80's........ my dad had to get the train into cent london every single day and at that time the IRA would blow up a train each and every week............ you wouldn't know which one it would be or when, you just played lottery with your life everytime you went to work.................i know today is bad, its sad people died but many more died every week at the hands of the IRA and people still had to go to work and earn the money.......

true, they had the front to take a mortar to downing street after all! we have been here before and worse.

[Didge]

Yerbs, we allow hate-filled scum like Hook Hamza to immigrate/ seek asylum in this country, then do nothing when they spout their bile in our streets. How many weak-minded muslim men follow his words I wonder? It took years for the authorities to have the guts to arrest him.
If we don't know the identities of many of the illegals and asylum seekers who come here, (and we don't), how do we know what intentions some of them have?
For instance, there has been a huge increase in crimes commited in this country by Eastern Europeon gangs.
Our leaky borders ARE to blame for a lot of what's wrong in Britain today. The blame lies at Blairs feet.
Nik, I totally agree that I.D. cards won't work. I'll have nothing to do with them for many reasons.

[Chappers]

A lady that drinks in the pub I work at was one of the fatalities - she's left 3 children (15, 11 & 7) parentless as their father died 2yrs ago with cancer.

Her best friend came into the pub to let all her friends know last night, it was horrible to see people crying over their drinks - that was one morbid shift :(

[dean]

it seems that the perpetrators of these terrorist attacks are a faceless enemy who do not necessarily have anything in common other than their hatred for all things western (thats not in a John Wayne kind of way, although they may hate him too)

Perhaps we should consider a way to stop them hating us. Genocide is now illegal so how about withdrawing from iraq for starters?, It just dosent seem to be going away, does it.


This is merely a point of view and not an attempt at soap boxing.

[SAMMYE]

:( :(

[Plum]

it seems that the perpetrators of these terrorist attacks are a faceless enemy who do not necessarily have anything in common other than their hatred for all things western (thats not in a John Wayne kind of way, although they may hate him too)

Perhaps we should consider a way to stop them hating us. Genocide is now illegal so how about withdrawing from iraq for starters?, It just dosent seem to be going away, does it.


This is merely a point of view and not an attempt at soap boxing.

Trouble is, our troops have been there, and whats to say if britain had no involvement it might not have happened. Apparently Italy (that great nation of retreaters) along with Norway, had also been sent some kind of warning. Why Italy? They have had nothing to do with it, yet they have somehow been dragged into it. Its a **** state of affairs which has been allowed to build over the years. On the box last night an 'expert' on this was saying that people had been going to Bin Ladens training camps in Afganistan for years and were then filtering out into the rest of the world. The US knew he was a high risk, but did sod all about it. I am aware that intelligence must be a hard job, and it must be even harder to keep track of where all these people have gone to after they have left the training camps, but the fact remains Bin Laden was a danger to which the americans didnt respond. They had many oppourtunitys to 'take him out' over the years, but nothing was done. The fact he would be replaced and made into a martyr if he had been killed is not an excuse. You need to rid the world of these idiots (most muslims are cool) and sometimes (this is probably gonna come out wrong) you cant help that Hitlers idea of ethnic cleansing (although it was the wrong race)could have been a good thing if it had been on these cowards.

At the end of it all, there will always be terrorists, in fact they are not terrorists - just murdering scum, who slaughter innocent people. Until we rid the world of the likes of Bin Laden, will we see any change.

Britain had no right to get involved in the war in Iraq. Tony Balir was wrong to get involved as soon as he did. Afterall the americans did turn up to WWII 3 years late! The backlash he will get now will be tremendous. And the attacks on London will only make Bush more twitchy to get his finger on that button. He wants WWIII, you can see it. He wants to be the man that gives america a victory in war. I am probably going to upset a lot of people (probably yanks, so i apologise) but you cant help feeling that americans are still bitter about losing the Vietnam war.

At the end of it all, the whole of the UK are watching and waiting and our thoughs go to those who lost their lives in this cowardly and senseless attack.

[steviej]

so assylum seekers/illegals did this? Bin Laden is an incredibly wealthy fella as are the people behind these networks, getting a radical to pose as a student from north africa is not difficult with that amount of dosh, after all it happened with 9/11? they were educated and well financed men, not refugees? don't wish to get all Guardian reader but scape-goating all foreigners is not the answer.

Alex.
ps.I hope you are feeling better though!

Well I'm with Yerbs on this one.............

I'm sick to the teeth with the "....it's them Muslim/Islamic bastards...".

I NEVER once heard the media in the 30odd years of reporting IRA bombings describing them as Christian Fundamentalists. The vast majority of people are decent minded and caring it's only a sh!thead few that f**k it up.


Just glad everybody here is OK

[SAMMYE]

Just wish we knew what the answers were!!

with the power that we (the western world) have surely we have to force our way of life ( democracy - which we see as correct) on others especially regime's that are undemocratic and dictotorial. Isnt conflict inevitable with these regimes anyway at some point!?

I'm not happy with the way we live at the moment in this country and the ever increasing Police State like powers and corporate control of Major governments but what can we do? Isnt it human nature to try and gain control? After all, the leaders we have on this earth (I believe) all crave control and power above everything else regardless of their good intentions that is how the come to be in their position.

choose which side of the Devil you sit seems to be the answer

[Didge]

Well I'm with Yerbs on this one.............

I'm sick to the teeth with the "....it's them Muslim/Islamic bastards...".

I NEVER once heard the media in the 30odd years of reporting IRA bombings describing them as Christian Fundamentalists. The vast majority of people are decent minded and caring it's only a sh!thead few that f**k it up.


Just glad everybody here is OK

Well I was one of those who did class the IRA as Christian fundamentalist criminal scum in the 70's, and they still are as far as I'm concerned.
The trouble is today, not every Muslim is a terrorist, but most terrorists are Muslims. If the Muslim community in this, and every other western country want to be seen as anti-violence, then it is up to them to put their own house in order. For instance, they could have made Hamza's life VERY difficult if they had clubbed together against him, but all they do is bleat about Islam being a peaceful religion and rub their hands. Very much like Blair does, in fact.

[stef]

Yerbs, we allow hate-filled scum like Hook Hamza to immigrate/ seek asylum in this country, then do nothing when they spout their bile in our streets. How many weak-minded muslim men follow his words I wonder? It took years for the authorities to have the guts to arrest him.
If we don't know the identities of many of the illegals and asylum seekers who come here, (and we don't), how do we know what intentions some of them have?
For instance, there has been a huge increase in crimes commited in this country by Eastern Europeon gangs.
Our leaky borders ARE to blame for a lot of what's wrong in Britain today. The blame lies at Blairs feet.
Nik, I totally agree that I.D. cards won't work. I'll have nothing to do with them for many reasons.


i wont even lower myself to argue... sorry.

[slob]

If I remember correctly, the last bombing campaign in London was perpertrated by a British white-power nut, who primarily targetted immigrants and gays.
If we repeat the history of the IRA's campaigns expect to see headlines around 2026 saying something along the lines of 'London 5 freed on appeal, after 18 years behind bars based on unsound evidence.'

[MikeG]

On a positive note (if you can call it that)
I am quite amazed at how few actually died, (I know that is a stupid thing to say and I have no doubt that someone will tell me so) In a crowded Tube train I would have guessed at many, many more deaths I am really pleased that it was not so much worse.
My sympathies are with everyone who was affected in any way.

Let us hope it is not repeated.

[dean]

On a positive note (if you can call it that)
I am quite amazed at how few actually died, .

I think the reason so few people died is that that bombers got it wrong(luckily). Generally speaking the main purpose of these atrocities is to inflict maximum casualties, however detonating a bomb in a tunnel would strike me as less of an oppoortunity as lets say, in a busy tube entrance as people are getting on and off the train.

[mad_turnips]

personally i dont care who did it black white green gray purple

as long as they are found and somthing slow and very painfull happens to them for a long time

plum is your mate ok?

im so glad i came back from london on monday

but my thoughts are with everyone who was till there

[Plum]

personally i dont care who did it black white green gray purple

as long as they are found and somthing slow and very painfull happens to them for a long time

plum is your mate ok?

im so glad i came back from london on monday

but my thoughts are with everyone who was till there

Yeah MadTurnip, i spoke to him last night and he told me that his house mate gets that train for work in the morning. Luckily, for once, she was late for that train and missed it by minutes. Someone was watching her.

Chappers - I was so sad to read that bit about one of your locals being a victim in the blast. I lost my mum to cancer when i was 22, and i know how i felt, but those poor kids having no parents, and after everything they have already gone through in their young lives. I wish there was something we could do. You cant replace a parent let alone 2, and i feel so heartbroken for them. I havent done anything, apart from think about it since i read it. They are in our thoughts and prayers

L

[nik_the_brief]

Yerbs, we allow hate-filled scum like Hook Hamza to immigrate/ seek asylum in this country, then do nothing when they spout their bile in our streets. How many weak-minded muslim men follow his words I wonder? It took years for the authorities to have the guts to arrest him.
If we don't know the identities of many of the illegals and asylum seekers who come here, (and we don't), how do we know what intentions some of them have?
For instance, there has been a huge increase in crimes commited in this country by Eastern Europeon gangs.
Our leaky borders ARE to blame for a lot of what's wrong in Britain today. The blame lies at Blairs feet.
Nik, I totally agree that I.D. cards won't work. I'll have nothing to do with them for many reasons.

Didge - you mght find this hard to believe but honestly mate we have the most leakless border you could possibly imagine.

You're probably not that familiar with current immigration law but believe me it's practically impossible to get here now unless you're physically smuggled into the country. If you arrive on false documents and try and pass them off as original you're in for at least 6 months at her Majesty's pleasure. The most recent Act - Asylum and Immigration (Treatment of Claimants) Act 2004 is arguably the most severe and draconian piece of legislation in the field. It criminalises many innocent genuine asylum seekers. I know, many of my punters fall foul of it every day.

Despite the Daily Mails view - this current government has been harder on asylum seekers than any previous government including Maggie when Micky Howard was the Home Secretary.

I could argue this all day but it ain't gonna get us anywhere.

Scarily your views on this particular subject are close to the general rhetoric espoused by the Nationalist Socialist Party when it was first getting off the ground.

[nik_the_brief]

Oh yes, you wouldn't believe how quiet the Northern Line was this morning. I got a Tube from London Bridge to Angel just before 9 and half the seats were empty - usually you're stuffed on there like standing sardines!

Had a good laugh with a number of darker skinned colleagues at Court, mostly Muslim and they were all saying how they got really funny looks on the Tube on the way into court - especially pulling heavy bags on wheels!! :eek:

I've still not ruled out the French though, remember what they did to the Rainbow Warrior when Greenpeace pissed them off!

[steviej]

Scarily your views on this particular subject are close to the general rhetoric espoused by the Nationalist Socialist Party when it was first getting off the ground.

Frightening................................. :eek:


...............................WWIII anybody??

[Collie_dog]

The US knew he was a high risk. They had many oppourtunitys to 'take him out' over the years, but nothing was done. Sometimes you cant help that Hitlers idea of ethnic cleansing could have been a good thing if it had been on these cowards.

Britain had no right to get involved in the war in Iraq. Afterall the americans did turn up to WWII 3 years late! He wants to be the man that gives america a victory in war. I am probably going to upset a lot of people (probably yanks, so i apologise) but you cant help feeling that americans are still bitter about losing the Vietnam war.


I'm sorry Plum but that's the biggest load of bull**** i have ever heard!!!!

Did you know that the UK shipped weapons out to Bin Laden, to "help" his political overthrow of the original government, he was schooled in either Cambridge or Oxford (i forget which) and has a lot of friends in the US and UK government. There is a photo of Him and Runsfeld shaking hands for gods sake!

The whole...well Hitler had a point is another load of ****e, so you want to ethnicly cleanse everyone who attacks Britian, ok so that's the French, Germans, The Irish..oh and if you want to get silly why not wipe out the Italians - well we were invaded by the Romans and also the Norwegians, didn't thousands of Britians get wiped out by the Viking hords? Pretty much most of the carribean and the diffrent races of India, when they kicked Britian out as the Empire crumbled!

The whole well the American's turned up to the war late, ok so they weren't as forthcoming, but would you have gone to fight for a country that you've never seen before? (Oh in retrospect we would have had to cleanse the Americans as well because they fought against us as well) Get your facts right, Americans were fighting the war out in the Pacific they had their hands full with the Japanese attacks, and also trying to protect China. And the Vietnam comment, seriously do you really believe that? They are still upset because it was such a waste of life, it almost wiped out an entire generation of men!

The Americans have a gung-ho way of dealing with things, but they are a scared country, when i have 4 security guards at the door of my supermarket, i know they are frightened. Within hours of the first blasts we had security/police at every train and bus station, this isn't a country that wants war, it's a country that wants to go back to not knowing about terrorist threats, so they can live their own little exsistance in peace.

[steviej]

...........The whole...well Hitler had a point is another load of ****e,.............

I think you better re-read Plums thread.


_________________________________________________

As for the American Way, I recommend a book to everybody, it's called "Dude, Where's My Country" written by Michael Moore........................

...............bit of an eye-opener

[A Yerbury]

I think you better re-read Plums thread.


_________________________________________________

As for the American Way, I recommend a book to everybody, it's called "Dude, Where's My Country" written by Michael Moore........................

...............bit of an eye-opener


Michael Moore??!! steady on Bernard you'll get more "loony lefty bollox" rants from Alf Didgenet.....

[SAMMYE]

As for the American Way, I recommend a book to everybody, it's called "Dude, Where's My Country" written by Michael Moore........................

...............bit of an eye-opener

Michael Moore = Fat Bullsh*tting money grabbing sensationalist tw*t................ with a beard

[Collie_dog]

I think you better re-read Plums thread.


_________________________________________________

As for the American Way, I recommend a book to everybody, it's called "Dude, Where's My Country" written by Michael Moore........................

...............bit of an eye-opener

I've read Plums thread, and i am quite aware of the statement, and as for Michael Moore, he's just a fat yank who got pissy, and darling i've already read it.

Thank you Sammye my sentiements exactly!!

[A Yerbury]

fat you say? ah well, he must talk nonsense then..... :rolleyes: and he makes money out of his job??!! outrageous.

[SAMMYE]

fat you say? ah well, he must talk nonsense then..... :rolleyes: and he makes money out of his job??!! outrageous.

I agree Yerbury!! but its his beard that really bothers me


in all honesty though I prefer the truth!! whether or not our governments are lying to us or some Fat half wit trying to make a quick buck

[Didge]

Scarily your views on this particular subject are close to the general rhetoric espoused by the Nationalist Socialist Party when it was first getting off the ground.

Nik, having re-read my posts on this subject, I cannot see anything that could be seen as being in anyway like the views of the German Nazi party.
Why is it, that as soon as someone gives a point of veiw on immigration that is not liberal/socialist etc, the first thing that they get branded, is facist or nazi?

I originally wrote:-

"we allow hate-filled scum like Hook Hamza to immigrate/ seek asylum in this country, then do nothing when they spout their bile in our streets. How many weak-minded muslim men follow his words I wonder? It took years for the authorities to have the guts to arrest him.
If we don't know the identities of many of the illegals and asylum seekers who come here, (and we don't), how do we know what intentions some of them have?
For instance, there has been a huge increase in crimes commited in this country by Eastern Europeon gangs.
Our leaky borders ARE to blame for a lot of what's wrong in Britain today. The blame lies at Blairs feet."

Where in the above post, are the National Socialist views?
What I said about Hamza is true, he hates us, and has many young weak-minded followers.
The government, only the other week ADMITTED that they had no idea how many illegals and asylum seekers there were in the country.
The police have said many times in the past, that there are many criminal gangs from eastern Europe now operating in Britain.
Posting the above means my views are similar to the National Socialists does it? You have a very twisted idea on what makes a Nazi if that's the case.
I stand by everything I've posted, and if some of you think that makes me Adolf Mk2, I really don't give a sh*t.

[steviej]

.........and darling i've already read it.


So I take it it didn't make you once question the Bush administration's antics?

[Plum]

I'm sorry Plum but that's the biggest load of bull**** i have ever heard!!!!



Like i said in the post, the whole Hitler thing was gonna come out wrong, and it obvioulsy has. The ethnic clensing remark was a bit much, and i now realise, in bad taste. What i actually meant was that you have this army of disciples who have taken it in their grasp to cause havoc, not just in the US but also Spain and now (alledgedly) London. I am not a Nazi supporter, nor am i rascist, but im in total disgust at what these scum, who say their human beings, have done. How can anybody for 1 second belive that what they have done, are doing and will do (coz i dont think for a second its over) is right, and that whatever 'god' they worship will take them to their version of heaven. Yes, i have watched Michael Moore, yes he is fat and yes he has a beard (so do i), but i am also a reader and i have read many things on the net and watched things on tv that are factual. I wouldnt spout my mouth off if i felt it was untrue or i didnt know what i was talking about. I like to think that, unlike some people, i get the story from both sides (and not just Micahel Moore). I had gotten the info about he US Government knowing about Bin Laden from a documentry that i watched on telly. It wasnt a conspiracy thing nor a Michael Moore thing, but something that was alleged on a doc by US 'officials' for want of a better word. In the case of hating everybody that attacks britain, like i said it wasnt just about London it was all the things that have happened. The French never put troops out in the war because they were still 'dealing' with these people, alegedly breaking trading rules, yet they are still at risk. I also understand it that wepons in the arsenal have come from many places around the world including the ones that have been attacked. So yes to a degree we must be at fault. The comment about yanks being bitter about losing Vietnam, was my opinion on things i have seen and heard again. The was me summing that opinion up and no-one else. Yes it was a tragic wast of your life, very much like WW I & II. I am sorry, I never wanted to cause any offence to you Collie, or to anyone, and i am sorry if i have. But like most people, i like to think that the freedom of speech is a right, and if we dont do it, we could very well lose it. If i appear to be incorrect, then i will withdraw any posts and not contribute further, as i would rather not upset,fall out with anybody or look like i am talking out of my ar$ehole.

L

[stef]

Our leaky borders ARE to blame for a lot of what's wrong in Britain today. .

that's where you are going wrong...
Those same 'leaky' borders are reason why britain is so dynamic right now.
..


but maybe i should be sent back to my country.
..
i have finally been drawn into it..

[Didge]

that's where you are going wrong...
Those same 'leaky' borders are reason why britain is so dynamic right now.
..


but maybe i should be sent back to my country.
..
i have finally been drawn into it..

Stef, when I say leaky borders, I'm talking about people sneaking in who have no right to. I've made no mention at all about anyone who is here legally.
I thought that was quite clear.

[steviej]

This is getting out of hand………….

I reckon we need to look at what the colonising countries of the 17th, 18th & 19th Centuries did to propagate the current situation. (Remember the Pink Countries on old maps). These colonising countries spread their wings over the globe in search of wealth through commerce and trade, the majority of the time through unethical measures. The US appears to have taken over that role from her armchair.

Now touching one area of our little planet namely the Middle East: The mid 20thC history of the Middle East painted a bleak picture and in my opinion it’s all to do with wealth and capitalistic ethos.

Does anybody really believe that the US would have sent troops to Iraq if there was no oil.

For reasons only he knew, President Reagan during the Iran-Iraq war of the mid-eighties, decided that the United States could not afford to allow Iraq to lose the war to Iran and sent billions of dollars worth of military intelligence and advice. In 1995 a former National Security Council official, Howard Teicher, said in a signed and sworn court affidavit that “The CIA made sure Iraq received weapons from non-U.S. manufacturers. This message was delivered by Vice President Bush who communicated it to Egyptian President Mubarak, who in turn passed the message to Saddam Hussein”.

Now if you ask me that’s a little underhand and eventually helped to propped up the Saddam Hussain regime. As of today the US has spent something in the region of $300 BILLION and suffered 1724 dead, in an effort to overthrow Hussain and bring democracy to Iraq. And what for? OIL. Nothing more nothing less.

I can think of better ways to spend $300 billion dollars (and so did Geldof).

The G8 world needs to seriously wake up and start to ask itself why these people do these horrendous acts.

I’m gonna leave it there and wish you all a peaceful night………………

……………………………….............. .................…..I loves ya all really!!!

[Fodder]

Cup of tea anyone? :rolleyes:
I am amazed at the blame thing going on here. If you are going to plant bombs to deliberately kill innocent civilians then the only blame is with the people who put them there, regardless of the politics of western governments. Quite frankly these type of people disgust me and at best are mentally unstable. What is the solution? I wish I knew, but if someone is determined and filled with so much hate for our society then how do you prevent this occuring. The answer is you can't.

Stay cool everyone, London will rise up and remain the great city it always has been and these bastards who dislike my ethics and my way of life will still hate me for being born in the west. **** em! Have a beer and enjoy your relative freedoms as they can't seem to or want to.

FWIW my American colleagues are devastated, as they view it as a personal insult to their "freedom":confused: they mean well. I have had people walk in the store today simply to offer their support and sympathies to my fellow countrymen. Touched I am. Although as Sam said earlier they can be a little paranoid and it was true that last night there was indeed 4 security guards at the entrance of the next highly desirable terrorist target.......our neighbourhood supermarket :D

vive Londres.

[Didge]

Cup of tea anyone? :rolleyes:
I am amazed at the blame thing going on here.
vive Londres.

Anger Fods. Anger that these scum exist, and anger knowing that IF they are caught, we will have to pay to keep them in prison.
Anger that so many innocent lives have been affected by death and injury, just because of their interpretation of their bloody religion.

[Wabbitkilla]

Aside from the bickering, there are possibly 50 dead, some still in that tunnel.
For me, well i left London on sunday after a weeks training / socialising, and feel very lucky, and was very worried for friends down there.

It seems they all had lucky escapes - ALL slept in and not travelling at their normal times, which would have had them in the thick of the carnage. So i am exceptionally releaved for them, but extremely sad for those killed and maimed.

The victims have human faces and the perpetrators remain faceless.

We live in a world ruled by Corpocracy where profit and gain is all.
The Americans wanted to attack Iraq because it has oil, they know about the weapons because they sold them to Iraq as did our own government. They know Bin Laden personally because when it suited them, they supplied and trained him and his "off-spring", then dumped them. Oh and by the way Italy was involved in Policing Afghanistan as have all the NATO countries.
They haven't invaded Zimbabwe in it's current state of human rights abuses and laughable democracy, well probably because it has no oil.
You reap what you sow is an age old saying and it stays true. The one guarantee you have in the UK is as Orwell says, the response of the governing establishment will be stupid and mis-directed.
Our borders may be more secure today (i don't believe that completely), but they haven't been for years, and it's not JUST LABOUR and Blair. No matter who is in power, they are all essentially the same self interested bunch. ID cards? They'll answer nothing apart from victimising the people who have a right to walk the streets of our country, the rest of the world can wander around the country doing what they like - as usual.
The "west"s attituade that their version of society is the only one people should obey, and their policy of invading countries to enforce their version of society on very different people is what's to blame for this mess.
Have the establishment learned nothing from history, failed empires, the churches obsession with conquest and conversion?

You can just go on and on with this subject as some people already have here, and the answers will not be answered until the whole world wakes up and admits "hey we're all different and maybe instead of conflicting over our differences, let's celebrate those differences and the depth it adds to life."

The best reaction to the current outrage, is not to be outraged. We live in England, we have seen and experienced this before, although it is terribly sad for those directly affected and my heart goes out to them and theirs, we go on. What-ever religion, race, or region we come from, we have to share this little island.

I will only make a couple of comments about the Hitler thing, my own opinion and i'm entitled to it. Hitler was plain wrong, you can't draw a line in the dirt and say that my part of society is worthy and the other side is not worthy and should be wiped out. The line is never accurate and there has to be a balance in society made up of all factions.

btw friday was surreal, aware of being watched and watching at the same time.

did i really write all that?

[Wabbitkilla]

Sorry forgot to add.

The reason for detonating a bomb in a tunnel.
With a small amount of pure explosive (no packed projectiles), the enclosure of the tunnel concentrates the force of the explosive. The reasult is a damage area much greater and destructive than can be achieved with the explosive in open space. That's how grenades work! You will note that the Picadilly line was the worst affected which is no accident due to the narrowness of the tunnel (6" around the train).

Don't ask how i know, just something i must've read somewhere

[nik_the_brief]

Didge - what I meant mate was that Hitler rose to power by attempting to put the blame for all of society's ills on a specific group of smaller ethnic minorities.

As for your comments on the Irish - I'll say very little but you're way out of line there. Religion was never the driving force behind the IRA but rather the wish for a united Ireland free of British rule - their campaign was a continuation of what they perceived to be the failure of the Irish politicians to win unity for the entire island. The fact that there was a subsequently bitter sectarian feud between the predominantly Catholic Republicans and the Protestant Unionists in the north of the country was the direct result of Britain's influence within the area.

[stef]

Stef, when I say leaky borders, I'm talking about people sneaking in who have no right to. I've made no mention at all about anyone who is here legally.
I thought that was quite clear.

So when it is established that crime is made worse by illegal immigrant only, we will talk.and i am not talking "reports by the SUN suggest.." here.

as far as closing borders to 'illegals', isnt that in itself a violation of human rights ?
why do we have the 'right' to live and work in this country, but others dont ?
so we are not born equal ?
or isnt because we were lucky enough to be born in a 'nice' country, so lets not share with the poor b@st@rds from the third world..it's not as if we are to blame for the state of their countries..
saying that all this makes me sick is an understatement.
i'll go out and cool off a bit now.
sorry for the outburst.

[Tigerlily]

Instead of arguing and falling out with each other over these terrible events, can't we pull together and do something positive?


Chappers....You told us about the victim from the pub you work in...is there a collection or anything for her children? I'd be happy to contribute something.

[Wabbitkilla]

You are abso-fookin-lutely right!

Even I with my Scottish/Yorkshire bloodline stinginess would contribute to something like that.

What say you UKMOC?

[Didge]

as far as closing borders to 'illegals', isnt that in itself a violation of human rights ?.

No it is not.

why do we have the 'right' to live and work in this country, but others dont ?.

Because it's our country.


so we are not born equal ?..

Unfortunately , no.


Because it's too small for
or isnt because we were lucky enough to be born in a 'nice' country, so lets not share with the poor b@st@rds from the third world..it's not as if we are to blame for the state of their countries...

Both. This is a small overpopulated country, and we are not social security for the third world. And no, we are not to blame for all their ills. .[/QUOTE]


saying that all this makes me sick is an understatement.
.

That's the big difference between you and I. I can live with the fact that others may have a opposite view from mine without feeling 'sick'.
On that note I shall withdraw from this thread, as I don't feel it is the proper place to have these type of 'discussions'.
Thank you, and goodnight.

[steviej]

My God................elfviz, err elviz, err efliz, err elvis HAS LEFT THE BUILDING
..............mister Hasmza Huck, sorry, Master Hazzme Houk, sorry, Mr Haszma Huk, Erm, Mrs Hasmar Huq..............

Oh f**k it...............Mr 'Whatever' you are, it's about time you looked at yourself................

..................'cos F**k me YOU SOUND JUST LIKE HIM......??




Yep, I've had a coupla'beers (and walked home through DARK alleyways (and survived) and Mr 'Whatever' will know exactly who he is.............................
.............you can't beat "they spout their bile in our streets", your only one word short there!!! i.e. should have read "they spout their bile in our forums", sounds like you went to the same school to me.

These perpetrators rely on peeps just like Mr 'Whatever', 'cos Mr 'Whatever' will scare you all sh!tless, he'll (or is that hell) stop you going to the 'Tube', stop you going to the 'Bus Stop', stop you visiting our local 'Mall', stop you 'Letting your offspring playing in the street', brainwash you in such away that you'll never set foot outside your own home, your own street, your own town, your own God Damn planet.

In reality Mr 'Whatever' is as scared as the next man and struggles to point his finger, 'cos.,do you know what? he can't quite bend it round enough to point to himself.

So there you go, we're all to blame, your gonna lock your kids in their bedrooms and never let 'em out for fear of an unlikely murderer, an unlikely paedo, an unlikely terrorist. They'll get so secular, they'll fear the outside world ( MMMmmm......., US comes to mind) and use: text, e-mail, mobiles, internet, whilst they waste away their lives in UNNECESSARY fear. (Yes these are our kid I'm talking about. DO YOU REALLY WANT THEM TO BE THIS WAY????

All you need to do is THINK, Think really hard.

Do you believe you'd like to live in a peaceful world?
Do you believe you'd like to walk home without fear of attack?
Do you believe you'd like to have care and support for everybody?
Do you believe in equal rights?
Do you believe in free Health Care?
Do you believe in free Education for all children?

Well F**F me.........

.......welcome to the real world, because 92% of the worlds population are on your side................










My lord is it that time already........................

must duck the aftermath :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

[nik_the_brief]

Instead of arguing and falling out with each other over these terrible events, can't we pull together and do something positive?


Chappers....You told us about the victim from the pub you work in...is there a collection or anything for her children? I'd be happy to contribute something.

I'm not arguing and I'm certainly not falling out with anybody, honestly!

I've met Didge and know him to be a thoroughly nice bloke, we were just expressing a difference of opinion. I agree to disagree with many people without it having any effect on how I get on with them.

Tigerlily, you're ever the voice of sanity and reason here (which makes you unique here on UKMOC!). Bloody good idea, Chappers what's the story?

[slob]

23 civilians were killed by terrorist bombs in Iraq yesterday. A daily occurence for the last two years. (they were being bombed from the air for 12 years before that)

[Little Monster]

I'm not arguing and I'm certainly not falling out with anybody, honestly!

I've met Didge and know him to be a thoroughly nice bloke, we were just expressing a difference of opinion. I agree to disagree with many people without it having any effect on how I get on with them.

Tigerlily, you're ever the voice of sanity and reason here (which makes you unique here on UKMOC!). Bloody good idea, Chappers what's the story?

i think the link to hitler was a step too far. very emotive and offensive connection to have made. it's such a shame these things are done in the name of religion because it gives them such power and strength of belief. must sicken true muslims. i blame bush and blair and yes it's gone on for centuries all over the world and our ancestors weren't angels but .......

oh, i've bored myself now. pass me the donations tin - those poor kids.

[Paranoid Dave]

not that i want to get hauled nto an arguement but feel I must stick my couple of pennies in here.
This (despite its flaws) is a rich and prosperous country, people who choose to to leave it and live elsewhere, france, america, australia and so on are emigrating. That is through choice. So anyone who feels they have leave a country for fear of death, famine, torture and generally leave a less than wealthy land for a richer and safer one is deemed an immigrant and frowned upon?
It annoys me that walking to work daily i pass a place to saty for many many young eastern european men, but i f I knew each of thier stories and found it had featured loss of family, war, pain and suffering then I wouldn't stand in thier way of trying to find a better place to live in this world.
My objection is to those people who just see us as an easy target, go to england they will pay your way and give you food and lodgings etc. Then not only are they unwelcome but taking up the time, money and efforts of people who could otherwise be saving lives of needy people.
Africa is big on the agenda right now, there are millions of people suffering while we argue. I dont know if anyone else saw it but during the Live8 concert Bob Geldof showed a clip of the films done 20 years ago, the girl in the last shot apparently had 10 minutes to live without aid. 20 Years on this beautiful girl in her early 20's has passed an agricultural degree in her home land thanks to aid provided from other countries, then this girl came onto the stage and showed the world that kindness works. We all give sometimes, in different ways to different causes, its how we get along because we want the world to be a better place than it sadly is right now. Its just sad that nobody wants to see help on the doorstep in public.
Will we ever rid the world of morons with bombs, NO.
Will we ever rid the world of evil dictators, NO.

Live with it, do what you can, be pleased you can make a difference to those who NEED it, and to those who dont but take advantage, seek to hurt and kill, I hope they all meet a painful end as the world is not big enough to look after idiots and scum.

Life is too short by far, to be a part of humanity, first you have to be human.
Respect where its due.

rant over.