Clutch problems.

[norrie]

I am finding that the clutch is dragging slightly.
It jerks forward when putting it in first gear and you cant select nuetral when it is stopped.
It is ok when on the move.
It has a new brake master cylinder and upgraded slave.
I have bled it a thousand times and I dont think it's air in the system.
Any ideas short of stripping the clutch out the bike?


Norrie.

[Fosse Foxfight]

.
I have bled it a thousand times and I dont think it's air in the system.

Norrie.
Aaaaah theres your problem then........it only needs doing once :rolleyes: Well, you gotta work on the logic that you got drag, hence your plates aint separating, hence they aint being lifted enough, hence either the push rod has shrunk, or theres not enough movement in the new slave.

[norrie]

Yeah but it could still be a problem with the clutch plates.
i.e.warped plates etc.
I was just wondering if anyone has had a similar problem?
It's a 1998 600 with about 10,000 miles on it.


Norrie.

[Fosse Foxfight]

Yeah but it could still be a problem with the clutch plates.
i.e.warped plates etc.
I was just wondering if anyone has had a similar problem?
It's a 1998 600 with about 10,000 miles on it.


Norrie.
Why would you suspect warped plates?
I'm assuming it was fine before the new master and slave cylinders?
If it was, then plates dont just warp on their own.....matter of fact you'd have to slip it like holy f**k to get that much heat in there. Tried popping the clutch cover off and having a wee look? I've got a strong suspicion a dimesion has changed subtly while changing the master/slave and you may need a tad of adjustment.
Shiny bike eh? :rolleyes: :lol:

ta ra

[rich]

Yeah but it could still be a problem with the clutch plates.
i.e.warped plates etc.
I was just wondering if anyone has had a similar problem?
It's a 1998 600 with about 10,000 miles on it.


Norrie.

get in there mate

so much better after a new one (m600)

rich

[norrie]

No I've not just replaced the master and slave cylinders.
It was just to get across the point that they are ok.
As for warped plates etc I dont have much experiance on bike clutches in fact none at all so I was just looking for some help before I go messing around with it.
It's a wet clutch and I can't be arsed draining the oil just to have a look at the clutch.
Does anyone know how much a new clutch is for a 600?


Norrie.

[rich]

£75

but mine was a 94

hope this helps

rich

[Fosse Foxfight]

I can't be arsed draining the oil just to have a look at the clutch.


Norrie.
Can't be arsed?...hmmm

ta ra

[Jason]

Hi, I would tend to agree Fosse. If you've changed something and a 'problem' appears I would strongly suspect the thing that I've just changed to be the cause.

I seem to remember a post some time ago that there were slightly different lengths of clutch pushrod available for the slave cylinder. Different by some 10mm I think. If you've got one that's too short (oh er!) that would cause the drag as the plates wouldn't be separating enough.

I think that Spareshack would be able to advise you better.

Hope this helps. :)

[gary tompkins]

My money would still be on air still trapped in the system somewhere. The external slave clutches (left side of engine) can be a real bitch to bleed properly, and even a tiny bit of air can cause the clutch to not lift fully. Albie spent ages bleeding his on the 900, swapping slaves over etc.. Poor sod came close to chucking himself off a bridge in the end :rolleyes: ;)

[Pedro]

Do 600 not have an internal slave cyinder as opposed to the 900s etc?

I'd suspect air in the line somewhere to start with but could be that the basket is "notched" through wear and the plates aren't freeing off properly

Ped

[norrie]

It's an external slave the same as the 900.
Does anyone have any tricks to bleed the slave that I'm missing here.
I remember when I fitted the new braided hoses to the brakes it took me ages to try and bleed the back brake before I found out that you have to take the caliper off and turn it up the right way before bleeding it.
I have a one man bleed bottle which I got with the new slave and I have also tried sueezing lever opening bleed nipple and then shutting bleed nipple to no avail.


Norrie.

[gary tompkins]

My mate Chris has used a Mityvac 'speed bleeder' on his brakes and clutch. I think this forces fluid under pressure (a bit like a mini grease gun) up from the nipple end towards the reservoir, pushing any trapped air up-hill and out in the process.

http://www.mandp.co.uk/productInfo.aspx?catRef=533338

There is also bit of kit called an Eezee Bleed, which forces fluid (using air pressure)down the line from the reservoir end. It's only designed for car master style cylinders though, so you would need to adapt it to fit the monster.

Another simple mod for both brakes and clutches, is to fit bleed niples with check valves built in. You can then leave the nipple open and pump away at the leaver or pedal.

http://www.alfastop.co.uk/english/info/info114.html

I think Albie eventually sussed his by taking the slave off the bike, and making sure it was higher than the master cylinder. I guess this would again encourage trapped air bubbles to rise towards the bleed nipple?

Drop Albie a PM - I'm sure he can give you more info :)

[claicerrig]

Another soultion to assist in bleeding the brakes is to draw it out through the bleed nipple on the slave cylinder using a large syringe and a peice of transparent pipe.(Helps observe air bubbles)

Have you checked the length of the push rod ?

Clai

[norrie]

I will try and bleed it again then.
Surely the length of the push rod must be ok as I've never changed that?


Norrie.

[A Yerbury]

No I've not just replaced the master and slave cylinders.
It was just to get across the point that they are ok.
As for warped plates etc I dont have much experiance on bike clutches in fact none at all so I was just looking for some help before I go messing around with it.
It's a wet clutch and I can't be arsed draining the oil just to have a look at the clutch.
Does anyone know how much a new clutch is for a 600?


Norrie.

no need to drain it, the suicide stand takes it so far over that it's quite dry on the rhs. as for no neutral whilst stopped they (nearly) all do that, certainly the older wet clutch.
AY.

[crust]

I doubt that you've warped the plates unless the bike has been used very enthusiasticaly.

Its far more likely that the clutch basket slots and inner hub slots are notched. This would prevent the plates from seperating properly and make neutral hard to find.

Lean the bike against a wall and you wont have to drain the oil.

Ideally to file the notches out you'd have to take the clutch off which needs a clutch holding tool. I've got a set of mole grip style one but you could make one out of old plates.

:) Crust

[claicerrig]

I will try and bleed it again then.
Surely the length of the push rod must be ok as I've never changed that?


Norrie.

Norrie you might not have changed the push rod but you say you have changed the slave cylinder !!!!

Doing something like that could alter certain settings or change things 4 you .

If say the machined hole for the pushrod to fit in has a slightly deeper hole you end up needing more travel 4 it to work or a longer than standard pushrod

It has been mentioned in this thread that there are 2 lengths of push rod .There is a possability that by changing your cylinder you might have a pushrod that is a tad 2 short to activate your clutch fully.

Good luck and let me know how you get on

Clai

[Unit 18]

Try turning the handlebars to full right lock with the bike upright then gently pump the master cylinder. If it has an integral reservoir remove the top to see if any air coming out, if it has a remote one you may need to move it a bit to see if there's any air.
Just make sure you do it slowly if the tops off or it can spurt everywhere!
Al.